Well part of the “levels being meaningful” in vanilla was getting new spell ranks, more abilities then we have now, and that one talent point. Blizzard has pruned, squished, and scaled to the point that the entire 1-120 leveling experience is pointless. If they did do a level squish it would be 100% for Blizzard’s benefit to hide the lack of abilities instead of making MORE abilities and talent options.
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There’s that word again, could you quantify it? Because it’s the same thing if it takes the same amount of time to do.
They’re both the same if the tasks take the same amount of time to achieve.
That is subjective, and I doubt anyone is really bothered by the levels as much as the XP required to get to their next goal, which a squish does not solve.
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Why do you think having a new ability will make you stronger ? We have zone scaling now, you won’t be stronger - you will just have more buttons to push.
I get the desire to be stronger each level like before 7.3.5 but that time has gone.
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In the earlier levels before you have your full rotation, it definitely does make you stronger to get a new core ability, even if the mobs are scaled to your level. You know that, lol. C’mon Amine.
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Would they rather join a broken game? If the stat squish taught us anything it’s that if they do a level squish it won’t go well.
I think they are trying to sell it as improving the new player experience (like there are totally all these new players after 14+ years), but in reality I think it is because they over pruned to the point where we have now have 30 levels of getting nothing.
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Since WoD and I don’t see that changing. But with the failure of the azerite system and gear system maybe gear and rental abilities are going away.
A new talent tier or a revamp of the talent system is a musts or else the level squish is going to make things feel worse IMO.
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Why do people keep talking about squishes, but then don’t cut the levels in half when talking about time to perks. 6-8 would become 3-4 and not 2-3. Also true story that people are so dumb that they would think that was speeding up getting abilities even if it took the same amount of time.
Again how would cutting levels in half change it from 15 to 2? Lol.
Smoke and mirrors. Leveling is pointless because of scaling already.
It is called progression. Regression is a bad thing and has been Blizzard’s MO since WoD. Literally all we have left is levels.
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They fixed something that wasn’t broken pre 7.3.5 and will now attempt to fix a mistake by making a worse one imo. Buffing xp gains along with a talent tree revamp/point distribution while leveling would be a good start imo.
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Problem is that a squish wouldn’t do anything by itself unless XP values were adjusted in the process to make leveling faster.
So they’d end up buffing XP anyway.
Which leaves the question: Why even squish? 120 levels seems daunting to a new player at a first glance, until they kill a few things and those first five levels fly by like nothing. Then those 120 levels don’t seem nearly as bad.
In contrast, let’s say a 60 level-cap squish happens. When that first level is barely scratched in the same amount of time, I’d argue it to be more intimidating to new players.
If you squish levels just because the idea of 120 levels is scary to some people suddenly, then it’s a stupid reason to do something that huge. When I had to restart with a fresh account in MoP (long story.), I wasn’t intimidated at all by the idea of having to do those 90 levels.
They sure didn’t take nearly as long as 60 did in Vanilla.
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Agreed.
That is the logical approach to this problem. A level squish is going to cause too many problems.
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I… I have already done so multiple times already, what do you think the rest of my post was? Fluff? I explained why its more meaningful already. Just because you don’t like the explanation I gave does not mean I have not already defined it.
You are free to disagree with my defining of it and view “meaningful” progression in your own way, it is absolutely subjective from person to person.
I am sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. While you are right that both tasks are relative just visually different, the visual difference (in this case the scale of the numbers in question) can have a strong mental impact on a lot of players.
Telling someone who might want to come play WoW that they have to level 130 times to get to the end game vs 60 times has a far different effect just from hearing it.
Again, that’s a fair point as it is very subjective from person to person. I stated my viewpoint on it and its no less valid than your own.
We survived 2 stat squishes already and guess what, there will be more in the future.
So, again, the soonest that a level squish would hit would be next expansion. The cap of this expansion is 120, but if there was no squish its most likely going to be 130.
Cut 130 in half and you have a different number, perhaps not quite 6-8 but close.
I mean, first off its really telling when you have to make personal attacks of those on the other side of the argument. Can your points not stand on their own without calling others dumb?
Purely hyperbolic on this one. It was an obvious exaggeration.
Lol, okay? So then, by that logic, what does it matter?
Progression is relative, you don’t lose power. Its the same tried and failed argument of the Stat/iLvL squishes. You don’t grow any weaker, everything remains relative and merely the visual numbers differ. This has been factually proven time and time again on these forums and yet you guys can’t seem to get past the idea that dealing 2,278,133 (12%) damage is the same as 2,278 (12%) damage.
The fixation on the size of the numbers being the end all be all does not matter if everything remains relative.
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And the game still feels worse than it did before the latest one. Squishing levels is pointless.
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That’s purely subjective. The majority of the people I play with enjoy the smaller numbers more and so far have enjoyed each squish. The people you know and play with may have differing view points, and that’s okay. Its not a question that has a purely right or wrong answer at the end of the day.
50% is still 50%. If it takes 8 levels to get a new ability that cutting that in half is 4 levels…
I didn’t call other people dumb. I said the supporters of a level squish because “new players are afraid of 120 levels” are calling them dumb.
Well then it was un-need.
See below.
Progression is not relative. We have earned our levels by progressing. Lowering it is regression even if power level is the same.
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Oh no, I enjoy the smaller numbers. What I don’t enjoy is low level content being harder to complete with a max level character.
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Whats 50% of 130?
That’s literally a contradictory statement.
Kinda. “Meaningful” is a subjective term (as you admit) that really doesn’t say anything. I don’t personally see how doing the same thing for the same results, with the only difference being you periodically glow yellow less often to be more meaningful.
It’s not the visual, it’s the increase of stats, the new abilities and the fact they are one step closer to being at cap.
But let’s grant you the visual argument: Being “level 100” would have more of a visual impact than 60, in terms of scale. The reason leveling is hated now is, unlike earlier in the game’s lifespan, there’s a few times where you level and pretty much nothing changes. Before, you got a talent point, you unlocked a new ability/questline for it, you got a bunch of things most of the time, especially pre-Cata.
Blizzard should bring some of that back.
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They have already buffed exp gains and nerfed exp required a few times this expac. By god you all wont be happy short of instant level cap
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You said 6-8 and then changed it to 2-3…
No it is not. We earned 120 levels. Cutting it in half is regression. If you go 25 mph vs. 50 mph, but go to a destination half as far away are you going the same speed even if it takes the same time to get there?
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