A medical procedure that benefits not just you, but everyone around you.
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Oh so the vaccine prevents you from getting and spreading covid now? Is that what you’re saying? Thats not the information I’ve heard.
It greatly lowers the risk of catching it. Even more so if a cluster of people have it due to herd immunity. Get that R0 rating < 1 and the disease will die out in a given randomly clustered population. That is a mathematical fact.
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Gonna need to see some long term hard data on that. Also you’re forgetting muh variants.
I’ll just pull a typical anti-vaxxer move and say do your own research. Look up what R0 means in relation to infectious diseases. It is a mathematical fact.
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Ok guys, I take a nap this one single time, and suddenly we’ve got anti-vaxxers “doing their own research” and teaching our favorite resident limited English-speaker about gender neutral pronouns.
I can’t leave you alone for a minute, can I?
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You know, this is part of where I see Uther as not flowing into Sylvanas, to help the audience, due to the story, and their characters.
For Uther, we didn’t have to deal with his immediate negative actions in the soul mirror, it was really in dialog after where he faced those. (Should not be understated: The story has Uther deliver the soul of Arthas to the Maw, remove that and Kingsmourne wouldn’t happen… leaving Uther as materially involved in the Domination of Anduin.)
Sylvanas, if this dialog is for a soul mirror, is going to be dealing with the immediate actions. Now, just for the pieces that makes sense. But, it does partition the characters for the audience.
Mind control and Sylvanas turned into a very long semantics argument in another thread awhile back; thus why I went with the wording true and total freewill.
The original Arbiter, with his link to “fate” and “destiny” is in an incredible position to turn things to his own end; in such a way that people so targeted never did actually have a choice.
In short: Where, exactly, is choice in fate.
With Waystones left for special souls, and prophecies from the First Ones about us, I feel like we’re falling back into a comment I made about universes:
The problem with a true course system in WoW comes from it entirely binding all things to a preset series of events. There is no choice or individuality. Truthfully, it makes a joke of having a soul as there is no purpose to it. It removes the purpose from time, and the Bronze Dragonflight, as it predestinates all things.
Doing that entirely removes good and bad. There isn’t even the ability to argue shades of grey. As all things inexorably move towards their allotted ends, even the alternate timelines are meaningless to worry about, they’ll simply magically melt into the one end.
To put that into perspective: It makes the players talking about genocide entirely wrong. There could be no other path, therefore there was no good or bad to be found. Only the compelled occurrence the natural course of the universe followed. It makes everything pointless action existing merely as the mechanical interaction of the universe moving along. It defeats the concept of justice… it makes it all a lie.It is an ultimate but the plot formulation, I give it that. But to try and rationalize it with some sense still requires what I already brought up in the form of something to source all things from.
I see your point, but I am not completely positive that the piece of Arthas’ soul that is in Kingsmourne is what Uther threw into the Maw. We saw a soul crystal used in the formation of Kingsmourne. We know that those can contain a soul fragment rather than a whole soul, and we know that Frostmourne generated several such soul fragments. We also know that Arthas’ soul was supposedly the first one claimed by Frostmourne. I don’t know if we can rule out the soul crystal in Kingsmourne as being from Frostmourne, rather than Uther’s actions. The latter option does tie Uther into Anduin’s fate more, though.
I understand what you’re getting at with fate and destiny and such, but that’s a long philosophical discussion that gets into a whole different set of issues besides Sylvanas. As for myself, I’m not convinced that Zovaal has quite enough power to control fate in quite that way, to eliminate the possibility of free will. I’m not sure that any power established so far in the Warcraft universe has quite that reach. The ability to influence people, yes, the ability to see possible futures, yes, but not the ability to control all the details. It would also be counter to recent major story lines to go that direction; the idea that fate and destiny are not immutable or predetermined was a big point in the final patch of Legion, along with the entirety of WoD, for that matter.
I personally think it’s much more likely that we get a situation of manipulation and influence, because that is a situation we’ve seen many times before. Specifically, I think that the Val’kyr Sylvanas made her deal with post-Wrath ferried her directly to the Maw, bypassing the Arbiter entirely, but allowed her to think that she had been sent there as her “fated” afterlife, before they offered her their deal as a form of rescue. That encounter would have made her more likely to believe Zovaal’s lies. We frustratingly also still don’t know the details of her deal with Helya in Legion, which may have played a role as well. I think such details could play a role not so much in whether Sylvanas is responsible for her actions, but in whether or not she’s repentant and willing to admit wrongdoing and work towards atonement.
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Well, they precluded that in 9.1:
Uther was struck down by a mourneblade. When such a weapon is wielded with rage, it can shatter a soul into fragments. If the Jailer holds a part of Uther’s soul, it cannot be fully mended until the lost piece is restored. - A Paladin’s Soul
Arthas wasn’t struck by Frostmourne being wielded in rage. He wielded it, binding his soul to it for promised power.
Which is a possible hook for Anduin, if Sylvanas wasn’t enraged it simply isn’t the same soul damage, as the story is written.
I’ve settled on that previously; it also fills the role of keeping the Arbiter and Eternal Ones in the dark about Zovaal’s influence on Azeroth.
My working assumption is Zovaal directly appealed to her, in chains, and told her about his being imprisoned:
That’s actually not a problem. But it hasn’t been connected for the audience, which is a writing problem. There’s no special art needed:
The Primus admitted to carving those runes himself.It’s a case where the truth was a viable weapon for Zovaal to ply Sylvanas with. They made the Maw into a prison, or entirely made the Maw, just for Zovaal and then chained him there. The necromancy and Domination came from the Primus in Maldraxxus. The power to keep the Maw sealed came from the Heart of the Forest.
The Eternal Ones made the foundation for Zovaal to point right back to them. All of what she saw could easily be blamed on them.
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True. However, Thenios doesn’t say anything about mourneblades not being able to shatter souls if the wielder isn’t enraged. Arthas wasn’t angry when he killed his father, but we still see Terenas’ soul crystal when we go to find Uther’s. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you are right, mind you, that makes a certain amount of story sense.
I’m of the same mind.
Look up the history of the Smallpox vaccination efforts, more then enough long term hard data from that success to justify the practice.
Variants also aren’t different enough in structure to require entirely different vaccines, the current one’s will still help.
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My main problem is the authoritarian approach being taken concerning it. At this point I’m just wondering how many variants its going to take to start waking people up. Also I thought this was a story forum and a thread about Sylvanas. I only mentioned this when someone earlier went through my post history and tried to stereotype me because of my stance on the issue.
People get too personal here sometimes.
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All I’m going to say on the matter is forcing someone to take a experimental drug, which we still don’t know the long term affects of, is wrong. Nobody should be attacking your right to choose to get it or not.
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If you are old enough to drive a car.
Then you know the big bad government forces you to stop at red lights. Put on seatbelts. Get insurance. And forces you to take an exam and gives you a passport… a driver’s license if you will.
You have lived with this tyranny all your life and you just did not care until someone on youtube told you to be mad.
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Who builds the roads?
The Romans but what have they ever done for US?!
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“Sylvanas fans are getting everything they wanted” as seen on Twitter.
Me a diehard Sylvanas stan: This expansion only meets like 10% of my expectations and wants. The bare minimum and I’m not all that impressed.
The fight between Sylvanas and Tyrande was cool, but that’s it so far.
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Just…I hope you’re ready to be attacked by the more rabid alliance fans who are going to be…very displeased about her redemption, if that is indeed what it looks like we’re getting. (Not that I’m complaining. She does deserve it).
We saved the kaldorei souls, Tyrande learned vengeance wasn’t going to solve her peoples problems and sylvanas fans are getting closure, to a degree. Not exactly perfect, could’ve been done better, but I can’t really complain. 