*Spoilers* Sabellian, Wrathion, and Alexstraza

They don’t need to, they’re just not saying it when commenting their evaluation.

I mean we can compare how many people are just pointing out the negatives. Versus ignoring his problems. The few posts I responded to, like Jirehn’s, were stand alone about it, though. That’s what started this exchange.

But! If you and others accept it is a good thing, then I don’t have more to add.

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That is fair. For argument’s sake, I will list what I see as the chain results of Wrathion’s meddling.

  • Garrosh’s creation of the Iron Horde and the Iron Horde’s subsequent near-conquest of AU Draenor and invasion of Azeroth. Bad for Azeroth, bad for AU Draenor.
  • AU Gul’dan’s arrival on Azeroth and summoning on the Legion. Bad for Azeroth.
  • The Legion’s defeat. Good for Azeroth, and everyone else!
  • Sargeras’s stabbing of Azeroth, leading to N’zoth’s Release. Bad for Azeroth.
  • Sylvanas’s rise to warchief combining with the discovery of azerite lead to the 4th war. Bad for Azeroth.
  • N’zoth’s eventual defeat! Good for Azeroth!
  • The defeat of the Legion resulted in the death of Argus, breaking the machine of death or something. Sylvanas’s war feeds the Jailer souls. The entire cosmos is placed at risk. Bad for everyone. Very bad for everyone.
  • Zovaal gets defeated after sucking up a lot of Azeroth. Good for us?

The scales are not balanced. More harm than good for Azeroth, and for everyone, has been done as an indirect result of Wrathion’s meddling.

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Trying to atribute the defeat of the legion to Wrathion is revisionist history at work.

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Fwiw, I don’t think this position is unreasonable. I also don’t hold responsibility in as long of a chain as some other people seem to either.

I didn’t actually do much of the recent stuff until now and haven’t gone to the raid. He sucks up some of Azeroth?

It’s part of his raid encounter. He keeps sucking up Azerite to power up his uber machine of rebooting the cosmos. Some of that power gets used in the raid encounter, but we’re never told if this leads to any lasting harm or if Azeroth even notices the loss. It’s kinda treated as a non-issue after, which is why I put a question mark as it being a good thing. It should be a situation with long term effects, and that might get addressed later on, but as far as we know, if’s a total victory.

Ah, because they needed another reason to pretend Azerite was important. Bleh.

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Arthas had built the Forge of Souls to gather up more souls for the Scourge army. Apparently it was tied directly to Azeroths world soul. Zooval hijacks it during his fight and attempts to drain Azeroths life force.

We stop that and ultimately defeat Zooval

Yes, Wrathion’s actions inadvertently led to the defeat of the Legion, Sylvanas, N’Zoth, Azshara, and Zovaal. A big long chain of cause and effect.

He should only get credit for helping with N’Zoth though and nothing else.

Bottom line is he put the world at risk for…reasons? I never can quite tell what Wrathion’s M.O. really is.

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Feel like Wrathion’s M.O. was pretty concise, no? He just wanted Azeroth to be strong enough for the Legion’s invasion. He thought Varian folding the Horde and bringing them entirely into the Alliance was the best way to do it, then when Varian didn’t he turned to Garrosh and wanted to use him and a multitude of alternate timelines worth of Draenor Orcs to strengthen Azeroth. Dude just constantly miscalculated, like thinking Garrosh wouldn’t be able to/wouldn’t want to just take the Horde and try to invade Azeroth himself.

Beyond that, if Wrathion only gets credit for what he specifically did to assist, he should only get blame for what he specifically did to harm. He freed Garrosh, which allowed the Iron Horde to invade. That’s the only blame he should get. Bringing it further than that becomes ludicrous in my opinion, just as ludicrous as giving him props for the Legion being defeated, or the Jailer, etc.

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Frankly that would be better (much better than putting a reckless, entitled brat up as sole ruler of his flight). Maybe something happens that actually gives Wrathion a well-deserved dose of humble pie and matures him, and he offers to be an official envoy/diplomat to mortal races since he’s spent the majority of his life around mortals rather than being raised by dragons at all, let alone his own flight he’s wanting to rule.

Sabellian could lead the actual flight since he’s put in all the work of actual leading and rebuilding the flight (including those eggs that are going to be the first generation of a new Azeroth black dragonflight).

Ebonhorn could be a spiritual advisor. So not a council exactly, but different dragons taking different roles that they’re suited to.

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Nah he has a drake model. We see it at some point during the legendary cloak chain in BFA. So he is basically in his teen dragon years.

Sabellion using as an insult is the most likely answer.

He originally was on team horde until Garrosh tried to assassinate Vol’jin because he couldn’t handle criticism. So Wrathion then was on team Alliance until Varian decided not to continue the war with the Horde following Vol’jins ascension to Warchief.

He was hoping one faction would absorb the other so the next time the Legion came, the armies of Azeroth would be one unified force. When that didn’t pan out, he went with the Iron Horde idea instead.

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I feel like that’s another reason to emphasise on my side of the argument. lol
“I’m super young. First idea - Genocide my family. LEZGOOOO!”
— Like … that’s something you see outta horror films. lol

That being said, he had the mental intelligence to understand he himself was purified of corruption. Wouldn’t take too much effort to whack on a thinking cap and consider there were other additional means of purifying corruption, such as utilising more titan or extremely powerful arcane artifacts, or a mix of both mental training of those who sought to be free + then finish the job with said-artifacts or some other kind of powers of great calibre for the assist.

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He calls Rexxar a friend, though its implied that Rexxar is unaware of him being a black dragon.

Nope. He originally secretly sided with the Horde. However after Garrosh triggered the Darkspear Rebellion, he switched to the Alliance.

In Mists his vision was for one side to beat and conquer the other to better defend it from the Legion.

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He’s six.

Ah, my mistake then.

Something that thankfully didn’t happen.
One side conquering the other? That would have gone over real well with the playerbase. :roll_eyes:

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Probably doesn’t matter as clearly dragons don’t develop at the same rate as humans. At least Wrathion hasn’t.

Well it’d have gone well with one portion, lol.

Just have to look at Awbee to see that. Was a whelp in vanilla, shows up as an adult dragon in WoD’s UBRS if you had done his vanilla quest chain prior.

Wrathion was born and hatched during Cata, became a drake sometime prior to Ny’alotha. As we see him in his drake form during the BFA legendary cloak quest chain & the Carapace of N’zoth intro cinematic

Could be that some dragons can mature into their adult forms rather quickly kind of like they do in Game of Thrones? No idea, just speculating.

I still think the idea of a dragon who’s less than 20 years old at the time of Dragonflight suddenly taking control of their Flight when there are other candidates who are 10,000+ years old to pick from is kind of silly.

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Sadly however, judging from the Collectors Edition Artbook - It gives off the feeling Blizzard are gonna shoehorn ‘Wrathion’ into the aspect position.

The reason why is:

— Because after showing artworks of the aspects they show artwork of Wrathion (Figured they’d show old-school Neltharion art, which would’ve been cool) along with putting a Wrathion Pin with the other aspects … It doesn’t even mention Sabellian. To which all seems rather predictable & cliché too if you ask me, but yeah.

If such is the case then them doing all that via the artbook is kind of a spoiler in its own underwhelming way … However, if they come to admit:
“Haaaah gotchya! You thought!! We simply didn’t wanna spoil Sabellian’s arrival return to players learning of the story for the first time, even with the collectors – and threw in a misdirect with various means.”

:point_up_2: I’d be like “Touché Blizzard. To my surprise, that’s actually some clever writing - You got me.” lol

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I really hope we get visage variations depending on who we side with. Something like the soulshapes in Ardenweald.

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