Well if we want leaders who are experts on hiding, Ebonhorn seems to have an edge over Sabellion there.
Ebonhorn has been isolating himself on the broken isles among the Tauren for thousands of years. I haven’t seen him showing leadership qualities so far. I am sure Sabellian is fit for the job. If anyone ever asks “Why do you hate Wrathion?” Just show them Varian’s death and pretty much all of WoD.
Sabellion hid in Outland for a few decades. Ebonhorn hid guiding the Highmountain for thousands.
If we blame Wrathion for Varian dying (I would have thought you’d count an Alliance king dying as a positive impact) then he should get credit for Illidan’s resurrection and eventually our defeat of the Legion.
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Except wrathion had nothing to do with that. He is responsible for the iron horde and AU Gul’dan eventually summoning the legion. Which you know led to varian and vol’Jin dying, Sylvanas becoming warchief and eventually stormheim. Which led to sylvanas using that as justification for starting the Fourth War.
Wrathion has a ton of blood on his hands. Directly or otherwise. He’s screwed up more than he has helped
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You’re applying a double standard. You’re holding him responsible for other people’s actions that he unintentionally allowed that were a negative but not other people’s actions that he unintentionally caused as a positive. You gotta count both or neither.
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Wrathion didn’t show up in Legion. He did nothing in the final phase of the fight. But he is directly responsible for setting Garrosh free. Who brought in the iron Horde and Gul’dan summoned the legion. He should be standing trial in Pandaria.
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I’m saying if wrathion doesn’t get involved than those events most likely never play out. He is responsible, he got in over his head and started a chain of events that almost ended the world
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I’m saying you have to take both the bad and the good unintended consequences of that’s what he’s judged on. If those events never took place, Sargeras might still be free, he might have captured Eonar, the Legion is probably still intact. That could’ve been much worse.
So you both wanted Garrosh imprisoned but want Varian alive?
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Varian was a noble king who did his best to fight for his people. Garrosh was a power hungry tyrant who wanted nothing but Orc domination. If he hadn’t broken ties with all other Horde races in MoP I would have given him the benefit of the doubt but that didn’t happen.
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Yeah, but those people were the Alliance who you constantly want to raid their cities and kill their characters.
But in another thread your ideal Horde leaders include Lei Shen, Jindo Magatha, Sylvanas, Kael’thas, and Draegrul. Mostly power hungry individuals that tried to put their group/race on top.
And he started the chain of events the finally ended 1) the Legion 2) the Old God threat. 3) and if we want to push further ultimately the Jailers immemoriably long plan.
Can someone check the temperature in hell? Must be freezing right now if Erevien is actually complementing an Alliance character.
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Evian actually does this quite a lot. He’s always making lists of how all the Alliance characters are “better” than all the Horde characters, holding up Alliance organizations as superior to Horde versions, so on and so forth.
Once you get past the idea he espouses that he “just wants better” for the Horde and look at the meat of what he says, it’s pretty clear.
Evian wants the Horde to just be a group of immoral monsters with no identity beyond their monstrosity, so that his real favorites in the Alliance can murder them without remorse.
Evian is an Alliance fanatical fanboy.
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Varian actually cared about the Alliance. Especially after hearing his monolouge in Undercity back during wotlk. Unlike Baine and Thrall who always do appeasement politics.
A quick response to this, Ebonhorn wasn’t ‘just hiding’ among the Highmountain Tauren, but was taking on the role of Spirtwalker and the personal advisor to the High Chieftain. A role he has (presumably) been holding onto for generations upon generations. In short, he is the primary advisor to the leader of Highmountain, which is a government that has (presumably) lasted without issue since it was first founded by Huln.
That is a lot of experience in working at the highest levels of leadership, as well as being exposed to the decisions and roles of leadership. One could reasonably extrapolate that Ebonhorn’s involvement has likely been the voice of wisdom that has helped the Highmountain maintain their nation without major incident from the War of the Ancients all the way to the Legion Invasion; including their long-standing (mostly positive) neutrality with the Drogbar - at least until the Legion invasion. That is a long time to maintain a (mostly) peaceful nation state / tribal confederation, and shows Ebonhorn must have been doing something right.
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Being an adviser doesn’t mean you are a leader yourself. If I had to pick between the remaining three big names I would always pick Sabellian. Also where the heck are these new black dragons come from? Didn’t they all die in Cataclysm?
But you don’t like the Alliance, supposedly.
Doesn’t mean I am blind when I can see clearly when a leader actually gives a crap about the faction they are supposed to lead.
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But why would you want the enemy faction that you dislike to have a good leader that cares?
I think this guy only wants a Faction to destroy the other and doesn’t care which Faction it is!
Because everyone deserves something nice. I mean just look at this.
King Varian Wrynn says: I was away for too long. My absence cost us the lives of some of our greatest heroes. Trash like you and this evil witch were allowed to roam free – unchecked.
King Varian Wrynn says: The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come.
King Varian Wrynn says: I’ve waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas… for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you… I could only think of one thing.
King Varian Wrynn says: What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde… It ends now, Warchief.
I can only imagine that 13 years ago every alliance player playing this had a huge faction pride moment then.