the point is the war in mop was over, this war is a different one
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No, i think that the horde broken the treaty first during wod.
no one asked for them to get punished, not even the horde, so why you think they should have been punished when not even the horde care?
i don’t feel like is a different one, the fact that the horde broke the treaty in wod tells me that is the same war
or that is what i want to think to consider this the fourth war!
As a non-American, I would say why this is quite simple. You do not arrive in a country that has lived 80 centuries under a dictatorial-religious regime speaking of democracy and expects that they will readily embrace western values. History matters, but it seems that it never been a widespread value in US military academies. No matter if they live in caves and have 12th century values, they would never trade their lifestyle for iphones. And people are prepared to die if someone is threatning their values.
Almost all empires in human history have tried to conquer Afghanistan since Persia. Most of them don’t even exist anymore, Afghanistan does. Some peoples are simply not conquerable. America is just one of those empires, when we have another empire, probably China, they will probably take it seriously that it is better to leave these people alone.
The problem isnt telling a bad history, theres a problem in this game being peg 12. If u portrays the kaldorei doing a suicide attack because of their fate agaisnt the Horde, something highly probable, it would be easy for people call it apology of religious fundamentalism.
Thats why the light in WOW something extremelly intolerant is showed as a tolerant religious.
long winded speel about Afghanistan being the graveyard of empires
Preaching to the choir here. This isn’t my first rodeo. My point is taking land isn’t as simple as throwing soldiers at it until the map changes color. Even Ukraine is still a daily bloodbath. People will fight and resist until thwir last breath to defend their homeland. The night elves are no different outside of heavy-handed, disinterested writers.
Not really, they just aren’t good at writing anything with nuance.
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I partially agree. The US has done a good job of assimilating with Japan. In a way you have conquered them, they are an extension of American desire in Asia. The point is, America is no longer as rich as it once was. There was no money to assimilate these people, and Western progress was never an issue for them. Japan, on the other hand, wanted to become Westernized almost 100 years earlier with the Meiji Dynasty.
They made the Gilnean insurgency seem very powerful and were quests that I still fondly remember. You have a good point, it’s poorly made lore. Taking Gilneas as an example would have been much more exciting.
Not really. The American people stopped caring enough to commit more money towards a fight they no longer have a horse in, and the politicans who want to stay in office follow suit. The defense budgets has only gone up, but the US has commitments elsewhere. Beating a superior force is best done over a long period of time, destroying resources as well as your enemies will to fight. The exact same thing happened in Vietnam.
This will never factor into wow because the writers will just parrot “Sylvanas has the backing of most of the horde and can do no wrong in their eyes.” Not to mention winning over your enemies like general Pistorius advocated with success is something that will never happen in game. Both to complexity and the fact the Horde just went genocidal on their familes.
A but late, but your explanation is a few years out if date. The Horde has plenty of resources post MoP thanks to the great Kaldorei lands giveaway per Emperor Wrynn. They have minerals and trees in Azshara, and a large swath of the Southfury River.
Any “resource need” is entirely due to the Horde’s mismanagement of their own land. And its kind of ironic given that “respecting the land and elements” are supposed to be core to the Horde’s theme. Taking ashenvale is naked greed, pure and simple. However, given the Human Empire’s historical precidence of rewarding the horde with exactly what they want, why not start a war?
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Technically, abandoning the field of combat to save yourself after telling the Alliance you’d cover them may not fall within “upholding honor.”
Even more technicalities arise from now learning that Vol’jin might have been mentally manipulated even before he was stabbed at the Broken Shore, as this is the same Vol’jin:
- Vol'jin says: Ain't no other way, mon. We gotta stop Garrosh here an' now, else we be runnin' the rest of our lives.
And even Sylvanas herself admits that the Horde does not see her as honorable even before the War of the Thorns. From the Horde’s point of view they should have known exactly what was coming from letting Sylvanas be Warchief.
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Well, your not wrong. Its a rough place to be I suppose, having the only way to uphold honor in your long-standing enemies eyes being to allow yourselves to be utterly eradicated. Even IF Varian’s assault on that all-star lineup between him and Gul’dan had worked (seriously, that was ridiculous) … it is very unlikely the Horde people’s could have survived such a blow of so many of their leaders at being lost at once. The Horde as a Faction for CERTAIN would not have (and with the loss of that power, the Horde races would have been completely at the mercy of the Alliance races).
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Uphold honor in just the Alliance’s eyes? You know what Vol’jin’s quote up above I cited sounds like to me?
Lok’tar Ogar.
For Lok’tar Ogar to apply, there really needs to be a chance at victory … and I played both sides of that scenario; the Alliance was just as screwed as the Horde was prior to the Horde lines breaking. That A-List pose-squad of some of the biggest named demons standing in between the Alliance Assault and Gul’dan (after a disastrous first contact that left both fleets decimated) … ensured that.
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Expanding the passage:
- Baine Bloodhoof yells: Our casualties are too heavy.
General Nazgrim yells: Don't be foolish, Vol'jin! You have no siege weapons left! You cannot win this battle.
Vol'jin says: Ain't no other way, mon. We gotta stop Garrosh here an' now, else we be runnin' the rest of our lives.
That’s fair enough, well I am certainly glad that the Horde seems to be growing out of that phase then (especially since the Alliance playerbase seems to use it whenever they argue that the Horde should either suicidally march to their races extinction; or only know how to attack in the most blunt-force straightforward way possible). Had the Horde not forced the retreat, the Alliance would have still been slaughtered and then the Legion would have won. Don’t know what Genn and Varian were smoking that they saw their broken, frantic lines … and saw a path to victory?
The Horde lines were too shattered by the point of their retreat to do anything but MAYBE buy the Alliance a few more minutes had they stayed (and no way the Blue Team was taking Gul’dan’s head in that timeframe … but damned would they have tried).
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Orcish 101:
“Lok’tar ogar”: meaningless buzzword the Horde uses to make themselves feel good when they win
“Honor”: meaningless buzzword the Horde uses to make themselves feel good about how they win
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No, we are.
I suspect it has nothing to do with “growing” and more to do with whatever was messing with Vol’jin’s mind that had him appoint Sylvanas.
And we’re back to the single most interesting story on the Horde side lol!
But I would also argue that Darkspear trolls are measurable more pragmatic than their orcish counterparts. If he felt he needed to retreat, if he felt there were no paths towards victory (even FOR the Alliance, even IF the Horde allowed themselves to be wiped out) … I have no doubt that he would have sounded the retreat. He probably would have tried to give the Alliance more of a heads-up than Sylvie did, but he still would have made that call.
… I just showed you an example of Vol’jin not calling for a retreat when faced with no path towards victory.
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Blizzard continues to be inconsistent in their writin’ for the sake of whatever they think is cool.
In other news: water is wet.
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They shouldn’t leave the Alliance purely because then they’d be giving credence to Sylvanas’ dumb ‘master plan’ of breaking up the Alliance by doing evil stupid things.
They should stay in the Alliance out of spite.
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Can confirm.
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