The way this thread is going is exactly why I don’t discuss lore or story with anyone in-game anymore. I’ve seen good people turn into complete scumbags because one side could not agree with the other and were so determined to be “in the right” that everything escalates to snark and personal insults.
Hell, playing on an rp realm I’ve seen guilds tear each other apart for silly crap like this (along with all the other drama you can find on those types of realms)
People are so sure their outlook on the story is the right one they are willing to shut down anyone and everyone that do not follow what is basically their headcannon and can never be open to the possibility of being wrong or appreciating a different outlook.
Blizz is guilty as well with their poor writing and constant ret-cons of the story Metzen established years ago, which has only increase the level of conflict between people for what is essentially the story of a fantasy universe.
Baine didn’t betray the horde, he tried to uphold the values of the Horde. The Horde his father and Thrall founded years ago. Lest we forget, it was the Tauren and Cairne Bloodhoof who gave the Forsaken a chance to prove themselves when they first approached the Horde to join them in the pre-game story.
It fails to meet the legal definition of a genocide as determined by the UN and international war crimes tribunals.
Given Azeroth isn’t Earth, and Earthly legal definitions don’t apply, I’ll settle for the common sense understanding of genocide - intentionally killing of the vast majority of a racial or ethnic group in an attempt to exterminate them.
Using that common sense definition, it most certainly qualifies.
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You did, it was called Wrath of the Lich King.
You killed Kel’Thuzad, the Necromancer turned Lich who spread the Plague of Undeath in the first place. You killed Anub’arak, the Crypt Lord who shared the secrets of necromancy with mortals in the first place. You killed Arthas, the Lich King, the man directly responsible for the destruction of Quel’thalas and the decimation of the Quel’dorei.
Individual members of a race are capable of being racist asshats. Doesn’t make the entire race guilty of their crimes. Night Elves as a people didn’t attempt to exterminate the Blood Elves as a people.
Tirion kill stealing you mean. Pretty sure Maiev was locked in Outland with the surviving members of her posse when the Blood Elves were attacked by the Night Elves. They attempted to finish the job that Arthas started.
We lost our home but what ever, it’s all about the NEs…
You blighted your home rather than turn over your war criminal Banshee Queen.
You lost nothing.
You committed arson and are complaining that your homeowner’s insurance doesn’t cover it.
We made our home uninhabitable rather than loose it to the alliance. Undead lost UC regardless but blighting it made it so alliance couldn’t have it
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Imagine if you drove an entire race of people off a continent and forced them to settle in a desert.
Imagine that race of people traveled from another planet for the express purpose of slaughtering you and every other inhabitant of your world so they could pillage it for resources because they had already used up and shattered their own homeworld.
Imagine that the then leader of said race decided to settle in the desert to restore their race’s sense of honor and pride by overcoming the harsh and adverse environment.
In fiction as well as in real life if the “Right of return.” was mandated as
global law then yes they should get their land back and the right to return to it. If this happened in real life then all red heads from all over earth would have to move back to Egypt.
Nor does it say there can’t be any defense, in fact quite the opposite, that is why the word “essential” is in there.
Your arguments are mutually exclusive, you can’t say “If there was a defense at all, it can’t be genocide.” and then say “These things are genocide.” and ignore that the people involved have the capability to mount a futile defense.
Once again, reread that definition, note the words “military forces” and “essential defenselessness”.
The civilian population of Teldrassil were not “military forces” and were “essentially defenseless” before the Horde army, even with the presence of token peacekeeping guards.
False.
Darkshore was the war zone. Teldrassil had not been touched before it was torched.
Would also like to point out, that this is what happened at Teldrassil.
The region of Darkshore had been occupied and the civilian populace sheltering in the city were immolated by actions of the Horde government.
It was genocide.
I was kind of shocked with the conclusion as well. Anduin is a very bad ally to have, all he does is demand and when the elves needed him, he simply just ignored them over and over. The lack of a war crimes trial for the Horde after Teldrassil and that village in Kul Tiras is surprising. Wow was always very interesting to me because instead of showing good against evil they preferred to tell a story surrounding the morally gray. But genocide cannot be qualified in that category. I don’t think the Horde necessarily needed to comply to a war crimes trial, because it would be a cliche to keep the story in a kind of reward system, like what they did to Illidan, as if his death “redeemed” his actions or was some sort of bad reward for them. The real shocking part is that Anduin, Jaina and pretty much everyone simply forgot why they were fighting in this war. I think it would be very interesting if the elves left the Alliance and joined forces with the naga to form a new faction, the lore in Nazjatar following Shandris could justify that.
One thing you have to agree is that it was a realistic outcome. Like when the US government nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the same excuse.
There are all sorts of opinions about the A-bombs and Japan.
It was not the same excuse either.
At the time, due to the culture and propaganda of Japan, it was considered that there was no civilian non-combatant population, the targets were centers of war production, and the US at least made an attempt to limit casualties by air dropping leaflets listing possible targets and urging evacuations in the weeks prior.
At the time, I am sure it seemed like the lesser of the available evils.
I am sure the Japanese feel differently, then and currently, as do many in the US.
I agree that it was a terrible event, I am not the one who had to make the choice and I have no right to judge those that did, or whether it was necessary or not.
The way we see history changes as time passes, things that once were no big deal become grave sins, I daresay most of the time it is a good advancement, yet there are still things that seem to be bad regressions.
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So is targeting civilians who have no quarrel with you.
Wrong. Japan was planning a mass suicide attack when the US would land on their shores, and had been prepping every Japanese citizen to to kill themselves taking down as many gaijin as they could, such as children being trained throw themselves under tanks and blow themselves up, housewives and farmsteads being armed with pitchforks to charge at their machine gun armed opponents, and planes being used as missiles. It was called “Ketsugō”, and it’s entire purpose was to turn the Japanese mainland into one massive meatgrinder, like Okinawa on steroids. The point of warfare is to make things so horrific, using force of arms, in order to get your foe to capitulate to your terms. Not mindless slaughter. Ketsugō was an attempt at forcing a Pyrrhic victory on the US, in order for every Japanese citizen to “die honorably”. Using the bombs, unironically saved millions at the cost of around 200 thousand. And, no, the Japanese military and government were NOT planning on “surrendering” before that, and any words they had on such before being forced to accept utter defeat, would likely easily just be a ploy to make slaughtering our boys that much easier in the meatgrinder. Using the bombs removed the “honor” in dying, made it pointless and horrible. We forced them to save themselves, and abandon their insanity of cultural suicide.
Compare that to Teldrassil: the Night Elves NEVER would have accepted any surrender, killing Malfurion and Tyrande would have done nothing but make them angry, and burning Teldrassil down wasn’t something they had never been through before (which they had, twice even, both with Zin-Azshari and then with Nordrassil on Mount Hyjal, they lost their home twice, a third time wasn’t going to be their end). Sylvanas wanted the war to go on far longer than it went on for, has no conditions for surrender or to make peace, no possible way of getting that even if that was what she wanted. Her only goal was to kill everyone and everything for her own power, and she lied to her “subjects” about that goal, telling them it was about “ensuring peace”, when there was no chance that, even if she hadn’t burned down Teldrassil, that the Alliance wouldn’t take it back (she assumed, wrongly, that the Alliance would turn on each other, rather than help the Night Elves, Genn was willing to put Teldrassil’s needs before Gilneas’ because of the kindness the Night Elves showed his people). Also, the burning of Teldrassil was done to start a war, and left the Night Elf military almost entirely intact, while butchering their civilian population. It was done to start a war, and maximize the military and civilian casualties to stoke hatred and ensuing strife, not end it with crushing despair and defeat.
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So you think the length of time you are able to live increases the value of your life?
By that argument, Forsaken and the immortality of undeath are the most important creatures on the planet right?
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I couldn’t have put it better myself. If anyone is biased, is the OP.
War happened in world of WARcraft. Night elves lost. Can’t win them all…
If anything, this keeps the game feeling more realistic.