(Spoilers) Baine's 🧠

Lore Story Forum
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Wow…I’m glad Winston Churchill didn’t have your advice.

You are saying the options are lose, or lose. Sylvanas is opting to fight on and perhaps win. Just because things are currently going in the Alliance’s favour does not mean that defeat is inevitable.

And she’ll be proven right, btw. Because the Alliance won’t win. Neither side will.

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Baine should just go be with the alliance so the tauren finally gets a leader that cares.

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Or maybe baine wants to stop the unnecessary deaths from the horde?
or more importantly, he doesn’t want to commit more atrocities in able to win a war that he doesn’t even want to fight?

And does matter if sylvanas will be proven right? that is not relevant to what baine’s sees.

Because apparently, sylvanas will use a dagger with an old god and probably releasing the black empire just to avoid defeat.
and for what? for unnecessary conflict that could have been avoided.

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I have this strange, strange feeling that a thread exactly like this must have existed once upon a time, only it was about Jaina Proudmoore and the arguments were on the opposite colors.

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/Raises hand excitedly

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Winston Churchill didn’t start WW2. ‘You are losing the war that you started’

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Not the best example really. The British were going to surrender until some incredibly lost German pilots bombed the absolute worst target they could have. Thinking a war is about conquest is one thing, thinking it’s about extermination is another and even though that wasn’t their enemy’s intention, the fear of it gave them one heck of a second wind.

Honestly, potentially one of the best things the writers could do for this story is to make some alliance plan work horrifyingly too well and actually -scares- the Horde into thinking they’ll be wiped out to a man. Sadly the alliance have never ever been the sort to use extermination as part of their tactics (existential threats to the planet aside) Also Baines knows Anduin on a personal level, at best the alliance will dismantle the Horde government and say mean things, but it may be better than throwing more life at a pointless (in his eyes) war.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have faction wars. I’m not saying either side should surrender. I’m not saying there aren’t legitimate reasons to hate and fear the other side. What I am saying is the reason for any of this should be backed up by visible and plausible in universe reasons. Beating up or fearing the nice kid just makes you look villainous or stupid. But if the nice kid could be feasibly made to look the bully or even do hyper-light scarlet crusade “we are the borg, join us” unsettling vibes, then the Horde wouldn’t just have a reason, they’d be downright sympathetic!

Come on writers… if this has to be such dreck, the next expansion has to be Yrel/“light doesn’t always mean good” alliance are evil without realizing it.

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I’m saying we shouldn’t have faction wars. At this point the writers have proven themselves incapable of writing one without making one or both factions look insultingly stupid.

Horde vs Alliance should be permanently shelved.

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49

Agreed. The Faction war has felt really forced after all the victories Alliance and Horde only achieved by working together. I feel bad for the writers because the two-faction structure is how the game is set up, but having to write reasons why these two factions would go to war over and over has to be an immense challenge at this point.

(on topic) Personally, I think this may finally be Baine showing that he’s still who I’ve always seen him as. He isn’t saying “Hey, let’s surrender unconditionally”, he’s talking negotiations. Negotiations with an Alliance King he knows wants peace as well and will listen to what they have to say.

…Also, for anyone who wants to complain about how Telanji deserves her revenge, I have a smoking dead tree we can hold the meeting at to discuss the matter.

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Out of curiosity, what do you think Baine would say to Anduin if the others agreed to these negotiations?

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“Hey man. Did you get that piece of my horn I sent you?”

To which Anduin would reply cordially; hoping that Tauren Custom does not require that he nip off a piece of his ear in some sort of response.

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52

Baine personally delivering Sylvanas’ Proudmoore bomb reminded me of Jar Jar Binks when the Emperor said “if only someone was BRAVE enough to make a vote of no confidence!”

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Cute. :grinning: But I mean, what sort of “negotiations” are we talking about? You said it wouldn’t be unconditional surrender, so what would it be instead? “We surrender, just don’t be too mean to us”? “Let’s team up and take out Sylvanas”?

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They just need to contain the faction conflict to certain zones like Stormheim, Ashran, and Wintergrasp.

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Stating the word Negotiation implies it isn’t a total unconditional surrender. There’d be nothing to negotiate otherwise.

Baine is hitting his limit and trying to stop the madness. He is suggesting it is time for both sides to come to the table and negotiate how they can come to a peace treaty that both factions would agree upon and works for both before this gets any worse.

How they’d ever come to that agreement, at this point, is the extremely hard part.

Realistically speaking, we know there’s a few who’d be willing to come to the table (Anduin, Baine, ect…). However we also know that for some, this war has taken too hard a toll to just put down their weapons and not try to extract revenge (The Night Elves, and now the Zandalari).

I personally think Baine would try to speak of the victories and achievements the Horde and Alliance have accomplished together as an example of what heights they could reach if they found lasting peace. Whether or not enough of the leaders at the table would listen at this point is another matter.

EDIT: I mean, come on. Tyrande went all “dark warrior goddess” on us. She isnt doing that then saying, “Okay, lets stop fighting.”

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And a character like Tyrande would simply say that it would last long enough until alliance turns around to find yet another knife embedded in their back.
Personally I dont think this faction war should ever end.
It should fluctuate in intensity but it should never end.

The Horde can never be forgiven and they cant be removed as a faction.
So.
Never ending war it is.

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Exactly. That would be a very short conversation:

Anduin: “I’ve spoken with Baine. I think we should hold peace tal-”

Tyrande: “No.”

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Agreed, a faction war story could work wonders. (we just need more visible and plausible reactions from both sides.)

The alliance need to drop the gloves, or have more people go over Anduin’s head and cause fractures in the alliance. Something that would really cause a blow out would be to push the alliance’s title as paladin of the planet would be to have someone like Yrel even to come down and start lightforging or forcing people to be good. (Coughs yay steven universe ending) and really give the horde a reason to panic.

Give the horde a reason to believe maybe this time the alliance won’t just roll over and let us keep everything like we did in MoP and now fighting harder again is justified because our collective butts are on the line. You gota react, and escalate while still maintaining characters like Baine and Anduin trying to calm people down.

Let cities burn, update new towns as player hubs and give each side a reason to be scared.

Once both sides have suffered enough, maybe only then should a third force come in and make both sides actually LOSE. Force people to have to talk things out and come together as mutual suffering leads to acceptance and then rise up to save the world once and for all (or whatever)

The horde has done a lot and should be made to answer for it. But I reaaaaally don’t want the alliance to stay this white knight “I told you so” Mom figure either. They both need to get their licks in and maybe after they’re both bruised and battered will they finally both respect each other and figure out ways to help fix each other properly.

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Warcraft at its core is about war and nothing is more iconic than these two factions going at it.

Teaming up should be reserved for special occasions. Honestly I hope this expansion leads us into another world revamped with warcampaigns and warfronts all over the Alliance and Horde territories.
New quests, new content and maybe finally lose this old level 1 to max leveling system.
How much more can we push it? 150? 200? At some point it gets absurd.

Cataclysm sucked because they ran out of time so most of the Alliance stuff was rushed… like those random vortex things in Westfall or Darkshore serving no purpose.
There should be an equal back and forth and it should involve everyone. No more time traveling.

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All of Baine’s mannerisms can be explained once you realize his :brain: suffers from prions after he vored Lor’themar without cooking the meat first.

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