(Spoilers) Baine's 🧠

Arlifrex-moon-guard · January 30, 2019, 9:11am

AU Velen maybe. Can never forgive Blizzard for sweeping Draenei genocide under the rug so the Draenei can be another turn the other cheek race.

Vespero-durotan · January 30, 2019, 10:02am

I just want to know exactly what Bwonsamdi’s bargain is FOR!

Laeth-hakkar · January 30, 2019, 10:09am

It lets you jump good.

Jazia-sargeras · January 30, 2019, 6:03pm

Yes.

His people died.

He wants to stop even more from dying unnecessarily.

Treng-wyrmrest-accord · January 30, 2019, 6:06pm

I would kill to Jump Good.

Laeth-hakkar · January 30, 2019, 6:08pm

Me too.

Oi! Odyn! You fair weather grumpalump, give us our jumping back!

Thilena-zuljin · January 31, 2019, 1:40am

Did you feel the same way about Genn, Rogers, or Jaina? How about with Tyrande now?

Jazia-sargeras · January 31, 2019, 2:10am

Different characters in different situations.

Thilena-zuljin · January 31, 2019, 2:17am

All of those characters had towns taken/destroyed and their people die, all of them sought to do what they needed to protect their own.

Yet oddly enough, they aren’t considered warmongers, why is Baine uniquely special here?

Jazia-sargeras · January 31, 2019, 2:26am

Baine, Genn, Rogers, Tyrande and Jaina are all very different characters with very different personalities.

They don’t deal with their situations in the same way.

Nor should they.

Characters should be unique in their approaches and that doesn’t make them wrong for having different reactions.

But you absolutely can find people who criticize each of them for how they choose to deal with their issues.

Tyrande was foolish to divide the Alliance’s forces, risking the entire war effort.
Rogers is a monster for attacking unarmed Orcs trying to swim for their lives.
Genn disobeyed his orders and risked losing the war against the Legion and nearly started a war with the Horde for personal vengeance.
Jaina is a genocidal monster who is just as bad as Sylvanas or Garrosh.

… just an example of some of those opinions.

Vozul-wyrmrest-accord · January 31, 2019, 3:29am

Reading this sentence with my own two eyes was worse than having to play through War of Thorns for the first time. Blizzard wishes they could inspire such hate in me as you do.

Thilena-zuljin · January 31, 2019, 5:00am

Okay, and why do you need to have Baine be the coward character? The one who’ll sacrifice his people in the name of peace?

Given the way you phrased this, you disagree with these notions, why?

Arlifrex-moon-guard · January 31, 2019, 2:22pm

Ffs these are giant slabs of muscle that preach victory or death with a hard on for killing Alliance that tried to do so not five minutes ago. You don’t let your enemies swim to the shore.

Seriously does anyone expect them to surrender after being spared, or to try and murder them? Rogers brings up that exact point.

Jazia-sargeras · January 31, 2019, 4:32pm

/sigh

I don’t think he is a coward!

Vengeance doesn’t bring back the dead.

Starting a war or escalating an existing war is only going to cause more Tauren to die.

If you could choose between 100 dead Tauren and 1,000 dead Tauren, why is 1,000 dead Tauren the noble brave heroic option?

Because you killed 5,000 of theirs?

Gratz.

You’ve still killed a thousand of your own people who didn’t need to die in the process. And you haven’t actually guaranteed that you won’t lose even more in the future.

Negotiating to build a lasting peace or just building a wall to keep the enemy out has the potential to save many more lives.

You’d be surprised. I agree in whole with some and accept the validity of the others I don’t completely agree with.

You said that they weren’t considered “warmongers”. By many people they are. In fact many posters both Horde and Alliance have been using “the Alliance warmongers” as shorthand for Genn, Jaina and Rogers for years.

Thilena-zuljin · February 1, 2019, 2:13am

Considering you’ve deliberately mischaracterized me multiple times as wanting Baine to be a warmonger I think it’s a fair assessment of what you are looking for in Baine.

Rolling over and pretending it doesn’t matter when your people die doesn’t win a peace. How many Tauren have to die before Baine actually pretends to care about the bodies and the survivors they’ve left behind? When should he actually fight? Should he wait until they hit Bloodhoof Village? How about when they’re sieging Thunder Bluff? How many dead Tauren would be enough?

He didn’t try to negotiate a peace after Hawthorne firebombed Taurajo and do you honestly expect a wall to last in a world where the opponents have airships, artillery, and magic? Remember, the Alliance already had artillery pieces at the wall and were working on knocking it down. Baine didn’t order the weapons stopped, the new Orc Warlord on the scene ordered them destroyed.

So what effect did those dead Tauren have on the peace process? I’m going to take a wild guess that it was nada. Zip. Zilch.

Generally the people who want Baine to keep his head in the sand and raise the white flag don’t. They like the proactive Alliance characters. So which ones do you think are justified and which ones aren’t? Because my observation has been that the Alliance fans who don’t consider them warmongers want Baine to be passive.

Jazia-sargeras · February 1, 2019, 2:28am

No I haven’t.

I’ve characterized you as thinking he’s a coward. Which I think is fair because you keep calling him a coward.

Perhaps you should talk to more Alliance fans, in my experience Alliance fans who like Baine hate the faction conflict and prefer peace.

Irenaus-wyrmrest-accord · February 1, 2019, 2:40am

Which isn’t a fair characterization of his response.

Probably because he’s not warchief and can’t countermand Garrosh leading them to war not long after.

Still standing to this day.

Hard to say when Garrosh worked so hard against peace.

Veloran-wyrmrest-accord · February 1, 2019, 3:46am

He said it was a justified target, banished those who advocated for retaliation, and never sought any sort of recompense.

Because the siege against it was broken without Baine’s assistance.

I’d say the chief actors against peace were the people who decided to invade their lands in the first place.

Thilena-zuljin · February 1, 2019, 4:57am

False:

Yeah, I can tell, whenever Genn, Rogers, or (genocidal) Jaina show up in conversation the same people championing Baine disappear.

Thilena-zuljin · February 1, 2019, 5:01am

His response was to declare it a valid target, exile anybody who felt differently, and…warn the Alliance when Garrosh was going to return the favor. He did jack.

It’s amazing, Lor’themar, who had no reason to love or hate Garrosh himself, was making his own moves to leave the war and almost succeeded.

And the only reason it is was due to Warlord Bloodhilt, who ordered the siege engines destroyed. The fact that he also took over the Southern Barrens conflict and tied up the Alliance troops did more to help than the wall did. What part did Baine play in that again?

So you agree that my assessment of “Nada. Zip. Zilch” was correct? I’m glad we agree!