(Spoilers) Ardenweald, Tyrande, Elune and Sylvanas

Lore Story Forum
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Scarlet Crusade says “Hello”… I mean guys THIS aspect has been explored -yes in an antagonical way, but totally and literally as you put it- since Vanilla. I have 0 interests in watching yet another massive cartoonish villain bat of the Forsaken and the dismissal of their tragedy to favor and whitewash the Scarlet zealots in BfA esque “plots” like it happened with the Daelin case, tyvm.

If only the average “only WC2 matters” Helfer fanboys would realize this :roll_eyes:

I kinda disagree, the Dwarves aren´t exiled from their lands per se. The way I see it this is just them making the environment more “cozy” for themselves, not them actually leaving their lands and rebuilding from scratch somewhere else… the Highborne IS an example of that though.

As per BfA, evidently no. But not because it´s difficult, but because they can´t figure out how NOT to continue with the “Alliance is only lawful good or gtfo” homogenized BS.

Like when this happened in “Before the Storm” and the writers decided to retconn a lot of Forsaken stuff so the Alliance pet characters could get yet another validation at being the “correct” answer and the Humans no deeper characterization than “poor wittle innocent victims”?

I think I´ll pass tyvm. I´m not 5 years old to waste my time with kindergarden esque narrative plots.

See? “I´m interested in Living Lordaeronians vs. Forsaken if this means more villain batting for the undeath crowd!!”… I´d actually like more nuance in the characterization of the Living ones instead of them getting coddled AGAIN as only victims while the Forsaken have to pull the weight in getting villain batted for the sake of it.

You know what was amazing of the old WoW comics? That some like the Renee one actually portrayed the humans as NOT only poor wittle defenseless victims but as victimaries themselves that killed your average rando harmless Forsaken civilian, ergo portraying a much wider scope of behaviours on the race than “white knight who can do no wrong”. When both sides of the fence are NOT “perfect” is when good stories get written.

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Ideally - coherently with pre-existing lore, and not in the retcon fashion. Just like IMO logically Jaina, if she would want to be pro-peace, would need to face the families and those who was in the Dalaran story to work through the problem, rather than ignore it, in a similar way both sides of Lordaeron citizens IMO would need to look for answers about their common past, and where the future leads.

I can’t tell about humans, but some forsaken were caring about the horde and their new home, while other did not care as much about their post death state as about what was before. Things like that could be a source of interesting stories. On paper at least.

Well, events in Hillsbrad Foothills happened already. So, there is nothing to villain bat. It’s a thing of the past. That can either have resolution, even if intermediate, or can be brushed aside. Which is a better approach to story telling: follow up on consequences of the events, or taking out or ignoring plot lines on a whim?

Sure, why not? Some could be accepting, some could be totally against, some could be “I’m ok with some undead, but not with those specifically who did bla and bla”. It’s not like we don’t have Rodgers, etc. Now, the story does not allow them to have any ground, 'cause Anduin, but it’s not like there is not theoretical basis for a wide spectrum of interactions.

I am still slacking with reading those that I bought during the Humble Bundle sale. One day I’ll be able to support such discussion. Probably.

Sure. The problem is tha the devs do not allow ex-scarlets who even joined, to has a tone shift in any way. So far there is no moral ambiguity, Anduin is right, and the rest of the alliance will be a sidekick for his views. But conceptually it would be good to have some split between humans among those who want to try something and those who do not want to forget. As well as among the forsaken, to those who embrace forsakin-ness, and those who would fight for the living against them.

But sadly for now I do not see any of those stories going well, since the ideology presented in Crossroads cinematic presented as unquestionably correct, thus no other approach can challenge it or be shown as valid.

gl hf

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Dude, she needs to face the Theramore civilian survivors AND should have gotten reaped a new one by Kindy´s parents. Cause it was her massive lack of political awareness the thing that got the gnome killed, period.

People can´t say they are “pro-peace” and “neutral” and afterwards deliver MILITARY aid to sides in armed conflicts, this is hypocritical BS and made Jaina a Karen and the whole Theramore “tragedy” an actual parody, no more and no less.

Sure, but the problem is HOW those events were portrayed. Zero mentions over Forsaken themselves dealing with hardcore stuff like the Stillwater one. Zero mentions over BOTH sides of the fence killing each other. Ergo, a “conflict exploration” that´s gonna basically go just like BfA is not precisely something different, creative nor much less nuanced.

It´s just more of the same BS.

If the story has been badly written from the start? Ignore and retconn ASAP. Cause the way Blizz dealed with the Hillsbrad issue since BtS only benefits one side and is nothing but more destructive crap for the other side to deal with -heck, it´s literal ammo to justify retconning the very roots of the race in “Muh Lightforged undead that´s nothing more than another Human with a mere skin condition” esque Calia ways-.

Pfff as if Rodgers was an actual example of nuance (dude, she´s a “victim”. No nuance anywhere). Nuance was living Renee that killed average Forsaken / Belf civilians whose crime was to meet to conduct commercial transactions for “muh Lurdaeron”.

THAT´S a nuanced character.

Congrats, you realized why entertaining this path IS a waste of time as of right now. The only way to explore this story beats is with an absolute change in the lore department and some other massive changes in the executive scale of Blizzard.

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I see it as either leveraging the popularity of the NF covenant to turn Sylvanas holdouts before the raid, or spite for NF minmaxxers, but thats just my imagination, probably.

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They could easily retconn it by making the worgen confined to the Howling Tree region of darnassus, and making a worgen refugee district of Stormwind post burning. Make it so that the Gilneans are the equivalent of European immigrants in 19/20th century USA.

The worgen heritage questline should have been solving a jack the ripper style murder in little Gilneas, and revealing it wasnt a worgen who committed the crimes, but a member of the kings court gasp.

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Maybe if the uncursed ones went to Stormwind and the infected ones confined, as a sort of quarantine thing, maybe?

Although I vaguely remember being told that the reason why Blizzard didn’t want to introduce any Gilnean architecture to Stormwind was because they didn’t like the clashing styles.

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Like Ellis Island? I like it.

Yeah, for sure. I dont think Little Gilneas needed to have Gilnean Architecture. Just poor Gilnean Refugees living like sardines.

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No we needed the room for important things, like Varian’s memorial /s

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Remember when the NE had an entire quarter in SW… now we are being stored behind the outhouses by the embassy.

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Gotta make room for that human potential.

:pancakes:

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Hey, it’s more than what the worgen got. You barely see any in the city. :wolf:

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Atleast they have the privilege of still being alive… instead of being burned alive, tortured, and then obliterated…
And all that for nothing but a redemption / justification plot for the one that inflicted this misery on them.

654

Plenty of Kaldorei are still alive and it’s honestly annoying how we have to keep reminding you of this.

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You are a bleeding heart…

For fictional non existant people, Ethel.

It’s hard to have sympathy for your plight.
Humane society commercials have more weight on my empathy than the victims of Teldrassil…

If you made a commercial with Sarah singing In the Arms of an Angel, for the NE’s I might show some sympathy.

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luxio…i mean, shut up. Its such a disgracefull behavior from you. YOU feel insulted by real people because they don´t like sylvanas, can´t support her, want her gone, so much that you even insult other people, you are the same kind of player for sylvanas like ethriel, the only difference between you and her/him is, she/he likes nelf, you sylvanas.

ITS ONLY A NON EXISTANT CHARACTER!

i can´t stand to this form of Double standard

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It’s not the players who invented the phrase “too few” when it comes to the number of survivors.

gl hf

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“How can you accuse others of a double standard when you follow them yourself?”

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Not all Diasporas are exiled. Large scale immigration is also a Diaspora. Like Theramore could be viewed as either a colonial-esque settlement or a Diasporic settlement, given Jaina was exiled but I doubt everyone else at the port was.

Though canonically, the only reason I can think of why so many dwarves would’ve decided to leave for Stormwind was to avoid their wars or its the population that used to live in Grim Batol or something.

But I digress, blizzard doesn’t have the range

660

Shernish, once again, you are kind of confusing to me, which person do you target with this…“Answer”?

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At you. I tried to predict Baalsamael’s reaction, so I put it in quotes.