Who wouldn’t have stood a chance were it not for the fel coursing through their veins after they drank from a well tainted by the blood of Mannoroth.
Until the Warsong drank the blood, the Night Elves were mopping the floor with the Warsong. Even Grommash respected them, calling them ‘perfect warriors’ of whom he had never seen their equal.
The felsmell was the orctraide, humans were attacked because of supposed allis of the orcs
Lie, they were defeating the night elfs until Cenarius appeared in the battlefield. If Cenarius didnt had joined them the kaldorei would had lose without the orcs resorting in drinking Mannoroth’s blood.
Not a lie.
Even going by the Warcraft III mission, the Warsong come under attack by multiple groups of Night Elves, five to be exact. Cenarius led one group, the Night Elf Sentinels, while four other groups (the Shadowleaves, led by Shandris Feathermoon, as well as the Moonhunters, Nightblades and Starseekers) also reclaimed territory that the Night Elves had previously lost to the Warsong Clan.
Even if Cenarius had not joined the fray, those five armies would have beaten the Warsong Clan. Again, Grommash respected them, considering the Night Elves to be perfect warriors without equal. This is known lore.
The orcs had only one mission there, to get wood to build settlements in the south of what would become Orgrimmar. They got those resources, and defeated the enemies that tried to stop them. In war when you manage to secure your objective you are not being mopped in the floor, you are winning.
Cenarius turned the tide of battle. And he only appears in the second part of the campaign.
The orcs fought against scout quads, the real army wasn’t there
They also built the Warsong Lumber Camp and Splintertree Post.
They waged war, unprovoked, against the Night Elves in order to harvest even more lumber, destroying multiple ancients and killing many Night Elves. The Night Elves were defending their territory, territory that the Orcs invaded to get lumber.
In ‘war’ when you move troops into territory that isn’t yours so you can plunder their resources, they have every right to take military action against you.
The Orcs only began to definitively win in lore when they drank the blood of Mannoroth, otherwise it is as Carhagen said: The majority of skirmishes were pushing back the Orcs successfully.
And as much as one can say that they secured their objectives, the Warsong Clan lost such a high amount of people that it considered Grommash drinking fel blood again and dooming his clan once again. Losing that amount of people and resources could be said that to be a pyrrhic victory.
I would like to make an addendum to Carhagen’s argument.
The Long Vigil lasted 10,000 years. When the incursion was met and the Orcs were attacked for the invasion of Ashenvale, the Night Elves reasoned that it was the taint of fel amongst them and surmised the Legion was back.
They were correct. Mannoroth, a Pit Lord, was within Ashenvale alongside Tichondrius, and the Burning Legion had effectively come back and was still using the Orcish conflict as a proxy.
Grom didn’t know of their existence, he thought the forest was haunted by ghosts. Then the orcs began to hear whispers in the forest, and then they were attacked. They retaliated as they didn’t know what it was about. And then they tried to rush to get the necessary resources.
It wasn’t a war without provocations, the kaldorei attacked first, the orcs retaliated, and then the war began. The orcs have a bloodoath to their Warchief, and they were ordered to go there to get resources, build a settlement and to send those resources to the South. They would never run away without trying to grab those resources and complete the mission the Warchief gave them.
That’s all headcanon, in the quest it is shown that the orcs destroy all the kaldorei settlements, when the conflict starts. They were losing troops, but so were the kaldorei.
Just watch a video on youtube of the mission. They aren’t losing, until Cenarius appears. And they’re definitely not being mopped in the floor like Carhagen says, they start getting beaten on all fronts when Cenarius shows up.
And the definition of victory in a war is securing your political goals. The orcs’ mission was to gather resources for their warchief. And they got it. So they weren’t losing.
Doesn’t matter. They still invaded Night Elf lands. Ignorance is no excuse.
Also, Grom didn’t think the forest was haunted. His soldiers did. He was quick to point out that it was nonsense and order them to get back to work.
The Night Elves had been observing the Orcs for some time, they saw what they were doing to their forest, they defended it and their lands. End of story.
Also, for the record, Warcraft 3 missions, while covering the events to a point, are not 100% lore accurate anymore. For example, lore wise Grom and the Warsong Clan built Splintertree Post and the Warsong Lumber Camp before they came under attack by Cenarius and the Night Elves, who were defending their lands.
I believe most night elf fans would like that too. The spotlight in this game has fatal fine print. The only way I’d like to see the Kaldorei brought up is as part of a larger revamp of Kalimdor showing the areas they still own being rehabilitated.
Maybe you should spend more than 10 seconds reading before realizing you are giving me a definition of what a warrior is. What you don’t understand is what a warrior culture is because you are comparing things that have no evidence to being that.
You need to show actual proof that entire society of NEs or Stormwind humans runs on the superiority of nobility and their fighting prowess. Where this belief borders on religious dogma or is heavily tied to it.
There is no evidence of this, absolutely none. Just because a society has warriors doesn’t mean they are a warrior culture to the degree of Spartans where they had literal slaves to run their day to day so they could spend more time training how to fight.
Or the Japanese where they had a lower class that wasn’t allowed to fighting and a higher class that was not supposed to somethings because its beneath them.
You are headcanoning facts and making assertions that are false with zero evidence to fit your own messed up biases to make the Orcs the victims.
No because I don’t see him in a rigid martial class base society that he cannot be a warrior or he has to prove himself to be a warrior. He is clearly in a medieval based society where birthright and lineage is what limits him and fishery. And yes if he was a good fighter, he might get Knighted and serve some lord/noble.
Thats not what a warrior culture is.
And this is as far I will go with your post, you have so much disinformation and blatant falsehoods its crazy… Maybe if I get bored I will take a look at this insane manifesto falsehood.
Its so easy to make false claims and takes so much more time and evidence to prove it wrong.
This guy lies and gastlights so much its crazy but yes you are right.
In the orcs have to just survive waves and waves of Night Elf attacks and when Grom is at his breaking point they find the the demonblood power up that they need and the rest of the mission is destroying the NE bases and killing Cenarius.
This guy keeps accusing everyone else of lying but at least we have actual video proof.
Smallioz please don’t attribute malice to Akhinoz. We may have disagreeing viewpoints but there is no reason that he’s gaslighting, or deserves insults.
Have you seen his posts man?
Do you not see what he is doing with that manifesto he posted up there?
He is like those russian trolls justifying ukraine special operation because they are nzi’s and other nonesense
Where the victim is the fascist because… you know lies and fabrication. And the actual aggressor is the victim.
And I am not insulting him. I am describing him.
Please do not play semantics. We can reasonably disagree without ostensibly attacking one another and making our discussion turn into sludge-slinging. Akhinoz is defending his assertions and has in no way attacked people or gone out of his way to attack people.
Do you know why he is arguing that NE’s and Humans are a warrior culture?
Because he argues that Warsong and the Orcs are a warrior culture that revel in a good fight. And that they invade and kill because its part of their culture and honorable to them.
I said that is monsterous and evil because the Humans and Night Elves didnt sign up for this slaughter. He says that they did because they are a warrior culture too so they should be happy to have such worthy opponents.
Thats the person you are defending here.
His very first reply to me was an insult. Do you want me to quote it?
Orcs invade and kill because that’s how Draenor shaped them to be—It was an inherently vicious dog-eat-dog world, and they were the low man on the totem pole. The orcs had to develop into an aggressive species to survive there at all. The Legion just amplified what was already a part of them, really. On Azeroth they did what came second nature to them as Draenor natives; kill the other guy before he kills you. Needless to say, the native peoples of Azeroth did not appreciate it.