[Spoilers] Alexstrasza and the Dream

I said that the kaldorei aesthetic was fascist. Go back to my posts where I talk about this and try to deconstruct my argument, I dare you to do that. I’ll be more than happy to show you all the scholarly works dealing with fascist aesthetics, and I’ll show you how the kaldorei feed off of that narrative.

You just confuse fascist aesthetics with being a member of the SS. They are distinct phenomena, but I understand that given your huge confusion about references in a game intended for 12 year olds this is difficult for you to understand.

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This.

And if you want a clear comparison, we have a real world example. The Athenians and the Spartans.

Both civilizations had warriors and very strong militaries, but one of them (the Spartans) was a warrior culture, the other was not.

The Night Elves have warriors, but the Kaldorei were not a warrior culture, not by a long shot.

There is nothing about them that is fascist. They are purple smurfs living in a forest and guarding ancient powers against demon forces.
There is nothing fascist about it.

The Kaldorei are a bunch of tree huggers that are an easy target for a fascist imperialistic Horde to take their rage out on for couple of patches until they decide thats bad and stop with almost no repercussion.

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You saying they are not imperialist because they are purple isnt an argument my dude.
I asked you to quote the references that i used to say they have inspiratons in an aesthetic that is fascist and to prove that they arent.

You just dont understand what im saying.

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The new orc heritage quest was great, but it does very little to change the overall sets backs of orcs or does very little convince us they won’t just repeat the wars of the past.

The burning was bad, same with everything faction war related in BFA. Night elf’s however we’re never shown weak. It was stated that if malfurion and Tyrandre were fighting they could defeat the entire horde army in Ashevale. Like what the entire horde army….

Isn’t MT hyjal their new home? It should of always been their home. Maybe they will build a new capital there.

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You claim they are aesthetically fascist. I disagree.
Given the fact that you dont understand the difference between warrior culture or just having warriors I doubt you have coherent point on this neither.

See the problem is “stated” I didn’t see it.
Just as you find it unconvincing that the orcs wont just repeat what they did before I find the whole thing about being “told” rather than “shown”

And yeah Nathanos should have died at Darkshore honestly, not sure why they let him live only to kill him off anyway. Should have just ended it there.

I hope not. With their proximity to the Horde its a bad idea, the Night Elves can’t seem to be able to defend themselves and placing another tree with people in it near the Horde is an insane idea.

No its better for them to be away from them. It sucks but its the only alternative that I see.

A lot of people liked that Dragonmaw guy in DF. Maybe if the Orcs were shown to be more remorseful and critical of themselves? Idk I have suggested this before to show the “humanity” of the Orcs but Horde players said I wanted them humiliated or something or that the Horde owes the Alliance no apologies and they did nothing wrong :expressionless:

It’s not though. Here’s the definition of fascism:

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

Let’s get out the checklist.

Is Night Elf Society:

  • Authoritarian? No.
  • Ultranationalist? No.

Does Night Elf Society have:

  • A dictatorial leader? No.
  • A centralized autocracy? No.
  • A focus on militarism? No.
  • A focus on suppressing opposition? No.
  • A social hierarchy? Yes.
  • A belief that individual interests should be subordinate to the good of the nation/race? No.
  • A strong regimentation of society? Yes.
  • A strong regimentation of the economy? No.

So out of all the possible boxes to check, 10 in total, it only ticks 2 of them. The other 8? Which are far more indicative of fascism? Not applicable at all.

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I will ask you to take a time and read the Arthas novel, specially when Varian arrive in Lordaeron and do a training with him. See what they say about the warrior culture in Stormwind there.

'Arthas sulked; he knew Varian well enough to know that the older prince was trying to soften the
blow. He followed sullenly, hanging up his own sword and unfastening his protective gear.
“In Stormwind, we start training when we’re quite young. By the time I was your age I had my own set of armor specifically designed for me.”

You didnt read the most famous book in the game, but i am making false claims? You funny dude, now call me orc warmonger.

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Do you know the difference between fascist aesthetics and a fascist regime? Answer that question and then I’ll engage in a discussion with you.

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It’s clear you don’t even understand what fascism is.

Maybe you should learn about that first, then you can talk about fascist themes.

If I’m going to waste my time with you just tell me, what is fascist aesthetics?

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Varian is a literal prince living in a kingdom far to south on the edges of civilization
His experience is not indicative of every other Stormwind civilian… and again thats not what a warrior society is…

Do you honestly not understand the differences here?

I actually did read the arthas book. And that has a story of its own that doesn’t concern this discussion. And yes you are an orc warmonger. At least those are the vibes I get.

Something you like to say looks like fascism but it isn’t actually fascism. Just because you throw around jargon doesn’t make it real.

Seconded, roleplaying on story forum is mondo dumb and utterly unhelpful to everyone involved.

Lie.
The first thing they do is get tormented and tricked by snickering night elves who are not one iota offended by their presence. The orcs are utterly unaware of night elves existence, or the land’s ownership.
Citation: https://youtu.be/DQ4MQfa_HT0?t=10

The night elves initiated war and murdered orcs.
:dracthyr_shrug:

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I know what I said Treng and I know from experience not to engage with your nonesense. I will not jump down your inane rabbit holes with you where the Horde is always the victim.

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You literally told a lie.
I literally posted the gameplay that proves you lied.

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First you tried to talk about the reality of my country without knowing anything. After you saw that I was actually brazilian and that you didn’t know what you were talking about, you changed the subject.

Then you came to talk about a topic that I wasn’t talking about, because I was talking about Warcraft 3 and the relationship between the orcs and the kaldorei at that moment and you appeared here out of nowhere talking about Cata and BFA.

Then you made classic posts from Alliance players saying that the orcs didn’t deserve to be “friends” of the holy Alliance, because in fact they still haven’t paid for their sins. Disregarding the fact that the Horde was immensely harmed by this lore. And that there are reasons for Horde players to be outraged by it.

Afterwards, without presenting any contrary argument, you completely discarded the elements of the fascist aesthetic that permeates WOW and left singing victory like a pigeon playing chess. I challenged you to deny the fascist aesthetic aspects of the kaldorei race and you and this paladin who didn’t even know who Grond was, confused it with a fascist regime. Because in average people minds fascism is just a regime, they don’t understand that it’s a much bigger historical phenomenon than that.

It’s not my fault and I’ve said this before that you guys are illiterate on the subject. I’m not guilty of you not knowing what the Volkish movement was in Germany, I’m not guilty of you not understanding that blind love for nature leads to fascist practices, and that in fact the kaldorei throughout the lore have had various behaviors that are associated with this aesthetic.

I could waste my time offering sources to read about this discussion, but you’re not interested. And that’s obvious from the fact that you think I’m a warmonger. The truth is, you are the typical reactionary Alliance player that made me lose any affection I had for the faction. I was originally an Alliance player.

But the Alliance playerbase is a complete disgrace. It’s always the same subjects, always the same discourse about which Alliance race is the champion of suffering. And when other players point out that their races also had serious problems in the lore, you always act like the harpies you’ll always be. You start invoking elements of fascist discourse in people, you start talking about them as warmongers, you start talking about them as advocates of genocide.

Everyone knows your tactics. The difference is that most Horde players on this forum have been silent in the face of this harassment from players like you, but I will not be silenced. You invoked Baal in one of your posts, do you disagree with Baal’s criticism of the overtly racist race-directed aspects of WOW that primarily targets races coded as POC?

Do you think Baal is wrong about this? If you think that, don’t waste your time with me anymore, because I know that you are merely one of the Zerde’s who will go so far as to defend the North American penitentiary system to say that the Alliance did not practice slavery with the Horde.

I know your game, it’s always the same thing, what you want is a humiliated Horde playerbase and you feeling morally superior for playing with races that are coded around the fantasy that permeates the Anglo Saxon ideals.

For me you are the typical player who deserves all the contempt of the Horde playerbase, you are the player who wants to destroy the experience of other players to come here in this forum and rage all your prejudice disguised as a sensible opinion.

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Because I assumed you were more knowledgeable about it and the complexities of the real situation dont really measure up to this game’s lore.
And I didn’t see you disagree that natives dont deserve to die and their lands taken so the people could exploit the land for wealth since they are “sentient” creatures".
This isn’t just a Brazilian issue, its an American, Canadian and Australian issue as well.

You didn’t disagree so you accepted my point. If you didn’t I am ready to argue further.

We were never talking about just WC3 so you are wrong.

I didn’t call Alliance Holy.
And yes the Horde bears many sins they have to apologize and own up to be trusted again. As you said they were fascists under Sylvanas and Garrosh and they have to own up to that.

Already addressed. You are talking nonsense. The Night Elves are not fascist.

You don’t even understand the difference between a warrior culture and a culture having warriors. Don’t lecture me on being illiterate when you don’t understand basic definitions.

You are a warmonger who justifies and glories Orc’s culture of bloodlust and slaughter because you coat it in “Culture” and apparently all races that are made to suffer through it are fascists in your eyes. And then you use what aboutism arguments to justify your flavor of fascist tendencies.

I don’t make generalized statements on an entire population. Thats limited way of thinking but given your fascist tendencies I am not surprised.

Yes I disagree with Baal because he compared Orcs to muslims. He compared the trump muslim ban to the Orc internment camps. The man has legitimately some very bad takes. But given your behavior, I understand why you like his cult of personality.

And you are a horde edge lord. Nothing new i had to deal with hundreds of you during the height of BFA. I can deal with one more.

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My controversial take is that WoW orcs, at least at first, were coded more “80s metal head as an aging white boy in the 90s views Exxxxxtreme” than PoC in any meaningful way.

And they haven’t entirely escaped that, given their aesthetic.

Thank you and good night.

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I come from the orcs.
We eat with spoons and forks.
We love to eat our pork!

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