What purpose does it serve to further strip the Kaldorei of their themes, i.e having wild god and dragon allies, and giving them to a horde aligned races?
We don’t need to strip the alliance races of their themes, give them to the horde and then expect everyone to happier than a bee in a beehive about it. Also, while it’s true that horde fans might not war with the kaldorei again, judging by the continued strip mining of Ashenvale forests, the in universe horde clearly has yet to give antagonizing the Night elves
Ok, so this is dipping into some super old lore and I’m fairly sure it’s been half retconned at this point.
But lorewise, Ashenvale Forest was special. As in, blessed to always be night time special. Night Elves, being nocturnal, liked that. Civilians would have plenty of reason to stay in the area that supports biological functions. Like being nocturnal.
Over the years, the eternal moonlight bit seems to be restricted to just Moonglade at this point, however.
I’d also, for what it’s worth, much prefer the Night Elves move back to Moonglade, since it was their capital before Teldrassil, at least in the old RPG books. Still Mount Hyjal, since Moonglade is canonically part of Mount Hyjal. Not Nordrassil, as people commonly think.
It’s enclosed, eternally night time, well defended, home to extremely powerful nature gods.
And it still keeps them within their historical area.
Have you visited the place where the green dragonflight has its seat of power in the Ohn’ahran plain?
There are dryads, ancients and even on the map of Ohn’ahran plain there are mountain giants roaming around. How would that remove the theme of kaldorei, if in case they are already there waiting to be part of kaldorei culture?
What I said is that I think this alliance between the kaldorei and the dragonflights is an interesting idea and that a change of heart towards them being the official protectors of the nature of Azeroth something that is directly aligned with the stature of the kaldorei in the lore, as a race who have a greater responsibility and calling than other races.
How is being the protectors of all Azeroth through a direct alliance with the official protectors of the world something that demeans kaldorei? Seriously, you guys are crazy. If you don’t want it, simply give this gift to the windtotem clan tauren who are already settling in the region. Since that’s too little for kaldorei fans, let a Horde race have that privilege.
And ask the devs to make that place a capital for all the tauren tribes, and that you want some hovels in Mount Hyjal to recover the race theme.
I think there’s a distinct difference between where the new capital is going, and asking why the Zandalari should be the ones with the unique abliity to have wild gods as allies.
Which, I noticed mind you, for whatever reason, you still have not yet addressed that one specific part I quoted.
I think you’re forgetting a little piece of lore called “Anduin”, comrade.
Kaldorei are no longer a nocturnal race, they have adapted to daytime habits because of “muh human potential”.
This is said in the novels, and it’s basically just another aspect of the constant mutilation of the race. You blame the Horde for many things and rightly so, but the humans destroyed kaldorei lore.
The closest that was said was the Night Elves during the feast in, I think Wolfheart, had the Night Elves set up the banquet and feast during a time that was comfortable for both. I.E early evening.
Such lore also predates Anduin, with Varian still being, for the most part, introduced post Wrath. In fact, them being nocturnal was brought up fairly often in Wolfheart.
That aside, yes. I’ve been in the “Blizzards attempt to make Human the default of the Alliance” has harmed the race almost irreparably" since at least Mists.
I didn’t quote it, because you’re confusing my wishes with what I believe to be the path the devs are taking to bring more originality to the races.
And I think they’re trying to put the wild gods theme as something specific to the Zandalari, and using the dragonflights as the new kaldorei theme, without giving up the old allies of the kaldorei nature like dryads, ancients and mountain giants.
They would therefore only replace wild gods with draconic aspects, the aspects being immensely more powerful than the wild gods. And I said that if that’s the way, it doesn’t seem bad to me. But that’s just my opinion, you might prefer lesser entities to support the kaldorei, rather than draconic dragonflights and the supreme goddess of the universe of Warcraft.
As I said earlier, if that’s not enough for you, the Horde would love to have aspects on their side.
you know, the real sad Thing here is that you say “this or that”, according to lore in the night elf case its an “Wild GODS AND Dragons”, because they were close allies to both kinds of supernatural beings.
The night elf returning to their old shape would atleast explain why the horde move further south instead of trying to expand in kalimdors north, and even in wc3, the night elves NEVER expanded in the last 10000 years their empire, so respect their border and you can life as long as you want in peace and harmony, they simply ignore you even, for the most cases.
The Night Elves returning to their old practices would have Night Elves riding Green Dragons into battle, because the Night Elves and Green Dragons had that type of relationship even “before” the War of the Ancients.
And the kicker is, that isn’t really what any of the Night Elf fans are asking for. It’s not really “Hey, let us just be the gods and get all this stuff the lore says we have back and roflstomp everything”. It’s “Hey, give us wins on screen against who we are fighting, just like they get wins on screen against us”
It shocks me that you don’t understand the implications this would have for any narrative involving cosmic threats in the game.
How relevant would the Horde be to any threat to Azeroth if the kaldorei were this mystical military superpower allied with wild gods, dragons, and the supreme goddess of Warcraft?
It was not enough that in every expansion Horde characters had to do quests only with Alliance characters, as they are basically demigods, while the Horde lost all its characters and the only one that had any power was actually using a borrowed power from a entity and lost its “artifact” post SL.
You want all themes to be Alliance-only and the Horde to be a mere nuisance “pushed” to southern Kalimdor, living off the pity of these demigod races.
What’s funnier about all of this is that basically Alliance fans are getting pretty much all of it, and yet I see people saying that there still needs to be a Cenarius that shoots lasers wandering around Ashenvale, as that too is kaldorei themed.
Let me be as honest as possible here. No sane horde player wants to have anything to do with the kaldorei. We don’t want the kaldorei theme, they can just have titans as pets if that’s part of their theme. What I pointed out here in this topic was something beyond obvious, that it was a great honor to live alongside the demigods of Azeroth, and that it was something very interesting to be their ally.
And then because of the immense pride that characterizes a relevant portion of fans of elves in any RPG, came the flood of tears, from people who think that nothing is enough to rectify the errors of a stupid lore that immensely harmed the immersion of a whole faction.
At the end of the day it is very obvious what kaldorei want, they want to humiliate the orcs, set Orgrimmar on fire, and only being very naive not to understand what the true motivations of all this crying are. As if it was some kind of Horde favoritism that destroyed the kaldorei lore, and not the obvious fact that it was all done to put Anduin in this position of savior of the universe, which was always been the goal of these devs telling fables of the white man savior .
i understand, but i don´t agree in this intepretation. If the night elf regain all their old themes it would not change anything regarding the lore right now, in a future, yeah, for sure, but right now? They live on hyjal and are protected by the wild, as they protect the wild since 10.000years, returning a favor i would say.
they are allied with wild gods, dragon and elune, thats not an “if”, thats the current lore as it written, it was only never shown ingame, but in lore it was allways the case. The point is that in time of needs blizz will ignore everything that speak against their plot.
Want you to know why the wild god´s didn´t show up in the war of thrones? Blizz answered this request. “This is not the story we want to tell”, means, they will ignore everything for their plots, so nothing, nothing would change so much if the night elf regain what was lost, it would only make the fanbase feel better to atleast…got something back from their themes, that made the night elfs so special in the first place.
And this is the thing you don´t understand, you only see here a “But the horde”, its not about “horde vs alliance” here, its about the lost fantasy of the night elves and the reason the night elfs were one, if not the most loved wc3 race.
They never been the most beloved race in War3, WOW is what it is because of the good guys monster race theme. Yes, they were extremelly insteresting in War3, but u have to understand that they were the only race that had a direct relation with themes involving nature itself.
I dont have a problem with kaldorei having wild gods as a core thematic of their race. What i have said is that its dumb to say that they have nothing to do with the dragon isles. As the fact is they have everything to do with almost every f&D&#ing land in Azeroth, as that it was probably part of their empire in one way or another.
Also, as you have pointed out, they have a relation with the green dragonflight that go beyond the events of the war of Ancients, and if Blizzard want to explore this kind of relation without necessarilly eroding their position in kalimdor it is a win-win situation at least to me.
And finally, i never tried to make this something about Alliance vs Horde. I dont really care that much about kaldoreis to even consider them a race that i want to see the Horde have winnings against. My goal here was to say that i like the idea of them being some kind of protectors of the nature for all of Azeroth like it was the designation that the green flight had received since their birth.
But my opinion is that people are too pride to take another path and that because we had these dumb artifacts in Legion and fought the God of Death in SL, it seems that people lost their respect for races that are supposed to be way above the kind of power any mortal race of Azeroth have under their belts.
clearly it was a plotpoint to boost alot of races and charakters, it was not a plot made for the night elves at all, the horde aswell was favored a lot in this plot aswell and the devs were suprised that even the horde react so badly, they didn´t get that and were suprised, they expected you to cheer and celebrate this entire situation.
but, are you really suprised , i mean, that is what blizzard caused…by provoking an fanbase and humilliate them for over 10 years rl…by showing them from time and time again as incompetent, weak, to late, and and and since cata…
i didn´t brought the Dragon Riders of Loreth’Aran up, that was somewhere else.
So, if you say, in your own words:
why even bother with giving the night elves their fantasy back? Returning the wc3 Fantasy?
And i would not say that the horderace were the reason wow is what it is today, because in classic, no one wanted to play horde, it was only 30% of the entire playerbase, but the most played races since vanilla was allways night elves and humans.
So i would here strongly disagree if we look back to the beginning of wow.
And the most player wanted to beat arthas after wc3…so wow peaked at wotlk and after this started to die…slowly…and in an long and painfull process.
Arthas is still today the most beloved warcraft charakter and illidan is a close second, all others are…uff, much less known outside of the wacraft fanbase.
Well i played WOW since vanila, and what made the alliance so more popular was more than people liking more kaldoreis and humans than horde races.
The levelling in horde zones was a complete disaster, with counter intuitive quests, people could waste months in the levelling of Barrens, without finding ways to complete a quest. In terms of pve paladins were the best class in the game as they could simple circumvent limitations of gear with their buffs.
Yeah, yeah buddy, ask any horde player in this foru what they feel about that, lets see if they consider my claim to be “false”.
It was a joke about artifacts?
I mentioned that i think the devs are getting the path of lettin wild gods be a thing for zandalari as the aspects would be a thing for kaldoreis, so go back and read again.
Not my fault that u have severe limitation in understanding when people are saying things that obviously are not to be taken seriously.
BUT the player don´t know this by simply buying the game, the most played on alliance back then…even started there, so no, not the horde “good monster race” trope make warcraft what it is, its a part of warcraft, but it was not the reason wow is so “famous”. sorry.
LOL, Bro the devs says that the Horde is the thematic that made Warcraft 3 so famous. I never seen any of them saying that kaldoreis made Warcraft 3 the game that is WOW today. And you dont need to say sorry, you simple dont even understand what makes WOW the game it is today.
Also, why 65% of the playerbase is Horde today? If u think its because blood elfs, why they didnt came back to the Alliance after the void elfs? Its because people preffer the Horde thematic, they dont like the Alliance theme, thats the reason.
Alright dude, i can clearly see that your bias cant let u see things as they are, so im not gonna waste my time with this anymore.
Prepare to face this incarnation of frost on May 2nd!
So since we have a loose agreement that Vyranoth and the tree go together, the fact they are phrasing this as they are seemed relevant to this conversation.
I am legit confused why we would be facing her so soon.
Edit: Because this forum chokes on Twitter posts. Which…is fair.
The Aspects were already a thing for the Kaldorei. They blessed the world tree with the understanding that the Night Elves would protect Azeroth. This got ignored in BFA alongside several other factors, but having the Night Elves be based in the Dragon Isles is not necessary for that to return.