With the Cataclysm settling down and with the Botanis, Saberons, and other creatures of Draenor showing up to repopulation the lands of Middle Kalimdor. Something tells me we are going to get a Gorgrond in the Northern and Southern Plains soon. Since Botanis can breed like rabbits with nature as well creating Centaur looking Plant Creatures. It could happen someday. Same with the Saberon Cat People, Gronnlings, and etc.
2 Likes
I think you heavily underestimate the amount of effort they are clearly putting into rebuilding this new capital. There are no assets for building on trees in WOW, and if there is something that was always missing in the game, it was precisely a capital that was actually in a tree, since Teldrassil was basically a technology that nothing compared to the idea of ââa civilization that lives in trees , like the forest elves from LOTR.
From what can be seen from the topography of the region they will settle on the Ohnâahran plains, in addition to the new location being immense, much larger than the city-state of Suramar, clearly they will use the spaces comprised by those islands to the east to interconnect it them the new capital.
You want to trade all those possibilities for a village in Hyjal, for that silly pride in saying that the kaldorei are still an empire that controls northern kalimdor?
Why is it so hard for you to accept the facts? The kaldorei are no longer an empire. And besides, in EK it is very visible that the Horde does not actually consider the kaldorei a threat, it has reached the point where the Horde feels sorry for the kaldorei, and this is something very strange for the culture of the orcs, mainly due to the fact that they do not tend to feel sorry for their foes, which signals that the orcs donât even have a desire to fight them.
You want to go back to these regions and continue skirmishing with a race that doesnât even consider you worthy, for the Horde is abandoning these regions, pure and simple, out of remorse.
I donât understand how far kaldorei players want to go with this vendetta. Time has passed and no one in the Horde wants any more war with the kaldorei, but we are interested in you receiving something special, and you are only wishing that Blizzard invests in something that shows how powerful you still are, when in fact all indications of lore, including the most recent one shows that you are perhaps weaker than gnomes these days.
And i agree with this point of view, like i said in previous posts,i dont interpret that new capital as a sign that the horde will take ashenvale or darkshore, or any of the territories of northern kalimdor. I really think that Blizzard will no longe work with that kind of plot. My point is that NE and forsaken clearly have much work to do, and right now the picture looks incomplete, something that only a revamp could fix, so saying that they have this or that may not be actually useful (yet).
Also, again, i do think that eventually NE will have full control of Ashenvale.
Yes, but even Irontree Clearing its still standing, since the worgens destroyed only the lower reaches of the place. I cant find any info about the Horde being completely expelled from Felwood, the only things i find says that the Worgens destroyed one part of the base and thats it.
Oh, well, thats not up to me to decide. I just wanna to develop Orcish arcs, preferably involving the clans, and this will not happen with lands that change ownership every two expansions.
Dont even say it, manâŚTHATS LITERALLY MY DREAM, i have no interest in Ashelvale, Darkshore, Winterspring, NONE. I literally just want the Alliance out of Barrens, and my favorite clans fighting against botanis and saberons in a giant Gorgrond like map.
3 Likes
I strongly wish for Botani (a sort of life based parallel to the Forsaken) for the Alliance and Saberon (cat parallel to Worgen) for the Horde as the last two Allied Races.
4 Likes
I have a friend that stopped playing the game since 2018, and he says that the only thing capable of bringing him back is a playable saberon and i totally agree, it would be so much cool
Altough iâm still waiting for my sweet two-headed ogre 
So, what Iâm about to say is a bit of a double edged sword.
But the vast majority of the military for Night Elves is actually still around. They were not in Teldrassil. They were actively sailing to Silithus. Some of them came back in time, but not the whole fleet.
There has never been a time in WoW that the Orcs and Horde have beaten the Night Elf military straight up. Every single instance of the Horde winning, from in game to novels has the Horde turning towards some sort of trick or super weapon or what have you.
In the War of the Thorns, it was some weird path that apparently nobody knew about in 10,000 years.
In Catacylsm it was demon blood.
In Wolfheart, it was a combination of completely changing up tactics, taming proto-drakes and finally Magnataur.
And while normally a supply chain is a valid point, with Night Elves specifically they can grow sentinel trees AND have enchanted magic food (canonically this is seen in the Firelands).
What Iâm saying is, Night Elves canât really afford to be in a prolonged battle, because population. But population hasnât ever really been a thing Blizzard has cared about. See 90% of High Elves being killed.
It is factually incorrect to say the Night Elven military still isnât a threat.
10 Likes
I want all of Kalimdor and the night elves stand in the way. If the traitor council is disposed then we finally have an entire continent to our own.
I think itâs not very clear what Iâm saying, so Iâll try to explain further.
You cite the fact that the Horde uses âtricksâ to win wars. What wars havenât been like this throughout history? Germany on paper did not have a better army than France at the start of WWII, it was precisely the German tactics that surprised the French and destroyed the Maginot line, proving the fact that trench warfare was an obsolete phenomenon.
Japan, even being much inferior militarily to the US, almost won the war in the Pacific and if it werenât for the battle of âMidwayâ and the famous discovery of the meaning of the âAFâ point, the US would be totally subject to a land invasion of its coast West, as the Japanese objective was the complete destruction of the American Pacific Fleet.
My point here is that it seems that people on these forums, due to the enormous US military power, tend to judge wars by a scope strictly linked to numbers and assets. It is not because an army is intact on paper that it is capable of being effective. The morals of kaldorei society are totally destroyed, they just suffered a genocide in the lore.
The kaldorei army has failed miserably to protect its citizens, and you tell me it is as effective as any time in lore. Well I seriously disagree with that. Mainly because in EK what we see is the fact that the Horde avoids conflicts with the kaldorei because they feel sorry for them.
So I think my argument has nothing to do with wishful thinking. It has to do with the fact that the kaldorei reality is much more fragile than most players on this forum tend to recognize. What seems to me at least stupid is this discussion about which territories the kaldorei control, how they can still demonstrate all their power to the Horde.
When the truth is that the Horde does not want any war with the kaldorei, because in the very media that report the most recent events, the Horde does not even interpret them as a threat.
Since kaldorei players bring up the fact that there was a genocide in every topic, it seems right to me that you start contemplating this event in all its meaning, instead of just using the parts that interest you. And the lore seems to be moving in that direction, hence the discourse of renewal, of reconstruction. Instead what I see are ridiculous discussions about which maps of Kalimdor the kaldorei still âcontrolâ.
Furthermore, without a hub like Teldrassil to provide resources, logistics and supplies to the Kaldorei troops stationed in Kalimdor, it seems to me that it is merely conjecture to say that they have the capability to wage wars as they were able to in pre-BFA events.
So no matter if the Horde uses âtricksâ, the lore undoubtedly points to the fact that kaldorei society has suffered a devastating defeat, be it moral, military, call it what you will, and that the trajectory of civilization needs to be rethought. Instead of getting into yet another pointless discussion about the Horde winning battles using nefarious expedients.
1 Like
I meanâŚ
Real world stuff is just useless to bring into WoW for a variety of reasons when it comes to war.
But beyond that, a genocide and still having a strong military arenât really mutually exclusive. Logistics and supplies are mostly non-issues. Night Elves entire schtick is pulling resources from nature, and they were (at least in Cata) logistically run through Feathermoon Stronghold by Shandris, their general.
Basically, what you are saying with Night Elves suffering a devastating defeat is absolutely true. In the same sense of the US would suffer a defeat if New York was bombed and the Military wasnât around to stop it.
It would impact the entire nation, demoralize people, cause war, and soldiers would get burned out. Which we absolutely saw in BFA with Sentinels saying they are done fighting.
But it WAS a civilian center that was the primary target. The majority of deaths were civilian deaths. Night Elf military power likely didnât fluctuate all that much.
Like, Stormwind in BFA had a cinematic saying they were running out of soldiers and people to recruit as soldiers because the death toll was so high. Itâs never going to matter either.
Which is part of what I mean by saying itâs a double edge sword to point that out.
It is 100% true that Night Elves suffered a massive loss.
It is also 100% true that Night Elves massive loss was mainly civilians.
And since WoW is fantasy, expect fantasy rules. I.E. Oh yeah, moral wasnât really a long-term issue.
I.E. since the current narrative is that the Horde and Alliance are no longer dire enemies, donât be surprised if you see a Night Elf army launched to fight an enemy faction army and do just fine.
This is the point that I think creates the biggest problems for kaldorei fans to understand these new developments in the lore.
Yes itâs all fantasy, and kaldorei donât really exist in the real world. However what I saw on twitter were speeches about using the tree to bring the kaldorei in Ardenwald back to life, that a capital on another continent would disrupt the kaldorei wars with the orcs and that they like this theme and that the kaldorei control 40% of kalimdor and should have a capital there.
It seems to me, and Blizzard has never been very subtle in signaling its plans, is that the devs are taking a realistic stance that the war of thorns had very profound consequences for the kaldorei, deeper than most fans think. And that a return to the status quo is not the path they will take is now abundantly clear.
My issue with a capital in Hyjal or even Ashenvale as Iâve seen some defend is that it would be at the very least an act of insanity on Tyrandeâs part. Why should the kaldorei trust the Hordeâs speech that this time everything is different, and that they can build a tree because âtrust me broâ, I wonât set this city on fire?
Also, why should the kaldorei trust the Alliance in the slightest? Does anyone honestly believe that Turalyon would help the kaldorei, rather than using an attack against them as an excuse to take back Lordaeron?
The devs seem to me to be trying to say that the logic of the current kaldorei is one of extreme pragmatic realism, that they actually donât have allies ready to help them across the ocean, and that the war also had consequences in fracturing the unity of the Alliance. For a capital in the Dragon Isles clearly signals that the kaldorei no longer consider the Alliance as their great allies, but the flights.
I think this development will start in the kaldorei, but it has very clear implications for the path of Alliance lore, and therefore I donât see this as merely a new capital, but the beginning of an arc involving other aspects of the faction.
2 Likes
They could develope such an interesting new part, if they stop warsong-gulch and develope the siege of the barrens as the next bg, to show how the new âwarâ progress. But its only my opinion.
you know, because maybe the night elf regain a few parts of their fantasy of what they lost before.
Maybe the wild god would fight alongside with them again, dragons, chimärs, mountangiants, treants, ancients, return the reason why the night elfs were a faction on their own before wow, but maybe in a smaler scale as before, do not screw the âfactionbalanceâ over, but to make it even, the kalimdor horde as a whole against the night elfs + the wilds of kalimdor.
1 Like
This is not true. Here are some statements from Exploring Kalimdor, about Valormok and Stardust Spire as examples:
- The little encampment be an important staging ground. It stays under our control for now, but I canât say for how long. Night elf defenders from Talrendis Point challenge us for control. One day, they might succeed.
The night elves made Stardust Spire by shoring up a sentry tower. Despite the Hordeâs effort to remove it from the map, the kaldorei keep it firm in hand. From what I could tell at a safe distance, the watchtower be sitting atop the remains of a bigger structure. Huntress Jalin leads the forces in Stardust Spire, her rank equal to one of our warlords. Jalin and her Sentinel warriors doggedly patrol the Ashenvale border. We heard they destroyed every single weapon the Horde brought down from the Stonetalon Mountains. She left the bones of our machines and the bodies of our engineers at the doorstep of Stardust Spireâa warning to her enemies.
2 Likes
Look, Iâm going to be fairly straight up with you.
Were this reality and people really were that desperate, the Night Elves would tap into the Well of Eternity, because there is zero reason for them to not do that with Sargeras gone.
The thing here is, there insât a war going on. The Horde and Alliance are not at war.
So if Night Elves live in Kalimdor, their land is their land, and the Horde isnât at war so itâs not an issue.
If the Night Elves leave Kalimdor, there is a strong argument to be made that isnât really their land anymore, and the Horde gets to use it regardless of no war.
People donât want the Horde to be rewarded for bad behavior.
1 Like
It is 200% true that nelves can solo every army in warcraft.
But this idea that orcs cheated and nelves didnât is 500% false. Nelves cheat so much that itâs considered just naturally part of their kit. They are directly empowered by Elune-blessed titan blood. They used this combination to conquer the world and perform Pax Nelfana.
They were losing to the Warsong, so they called in a wild god to fight for them, and this is not considered cheating. So, when orcs drink demon blood to fight a wild god and his Elune-blessed titan blood bathing friends, people act like only orcs were reaching for outside help.
Ridiculous
Apologies for typos, on phone
5 Likes
Letâs also add Amanâthul the all father, as a mob that respawns on the side of Astranaar and protects the place from orc spies. But now seriously, it seems they are trying to recover the kaldorei as a faction of their own, but using a different theme than the one you mention.
The path will be for them to be natureâs protectors together with the green and red flight. And the Aspects will apparently regain their powers by the end of DF, and they are way above the power of any wild god or mountain giant.
Itâs just a change in thematics of who the kaldorei ally themselves with and what their relationships will be like. And thatâs not necessarily a bad thing. Even because I think the civilization that will use wild gods and giant forest animals seems to me to be clearly the Zandalari.
It was never said that they will leave Kalimdor, what I said is that the Horde has no interest in having wars with the kaldorei and that is the truth. The opposite is true, as some kaldorei fans still want a supposed war with the Horde.
What I said is that a capital protected by demigods is much more logical than simply going to live next to the perpetrators of the genocide of its people, honestly if I were a kaldorei I would never want to live in Kalimdor, I would gladly accept the invitation from demigods.
Iâm talking about civilians here, and thatâs what you donât understand. The kaldorei have a presence on these territories, they have always been military bases, they have always had a military objective, and they may very well continue there fulfilling exactly the same role, as the horde is retreating of all the kaldoreis lands.
1 Like
it seems that you have a issue with the night elf regaining their old status?
this was before the instruction of the zandalari clear the night elf theme, the guardian of hyjals fought alongside them âŚeven chronicle 3 mentioned it âŚbut i guess, this doesn´t count anymore because its now a Zandalari-Theme, right?
4 Likes
If this is the case then it would be most logical that the Horde to have abandoned Splintertree and the Warsong Lumber Camp, as those are really the only two remaining places that maintain the Hordeâs contention with the Night Elves. Unfortunately while Gorgonna mentioned traveling to Ashenvale she has not yet mentioned what the state of things there is.
Yes, I am an orc supremacist disciple of Garrosh. Seriously youâre going to use that kind of argument? They shouldnât gain this status simply because it breaks all logic of there even being a Horde my dear.
If kaldorei were what they were in Warcraft 3 the Horde would simply live in Kalimdor out of the benevolence of the kaldorei, as they would simply be a military force comparable only to the Legion.
At the end of the day thatâs what I see Alliance players wanting, a humiliated, weak Horde that lives off the lessons of morality and piety from the opposing faction.
I want the kaldorei to have their lands in Kalimdor, but I say and will continue to say that an alliance with the dragonflights makes much more sense than waiting for Turalyon to cross the sea to help them. And that the lore not I Akhinoz points in the direction that they were deeply affected by the events of the war and that they now seek renewal in a place far from the threats they had to face alone.
Whatâs wrong with the gods kaldorei having allies ?Whatâs wrong with them having a new theme that isnât something ridiculous from an RTS from 20 years ago? My god this is pathetic, people simply want an entire civilization to be made up of gods only, not enough for the ridiculous Deus ex Machina Tyrande night warrior.
3 Likes