What is a fair chance for a War criminal?
2 Likes
I was just going to type that ironically enough, the fair chance part anyway
1 Like
To prove she’s not the irredeemable monster everyone thinks she is.
That’s really all she’s wanted and deserves.
1 Like
How does the greatest war criminal of the era prove that, exactly?
3 Likes
But the fact is, the BQ definitely is. The acts are unforgivable, I mean, what do you expect from that? What…this fair chance, you’re acting like your verdict is already set although everyone knows that instead of honoring Tyrande’s character and attitude as she actually is, blizzard will let Tyrande act absolutely OOC so that Sylvanas survives everything…and comes out unscathed.
5 Likes
Well we know so far she is going to say she submits to Tyrande’s justice.
Tyrande is going to let her go.
Sylvanas is going to jump into the maw to find Nathanos.
Who is nothing short of psychopath.
Sylvanas isn’t going to die or get locked up in a prison or sent to Revendreath to make amends. So really I am not sure how she is going to prove she is redeemable.
Nothing happens of consequence to Sylvanas or the Horde for that matter for their actions and once again the Alliance is left holding the bag.
6 Likes
My hope is still that Tyrande will condemn her.to look for all the souls in the Maw…that are still to be saved and lead them out…if need be for eternity…but that is too much to ask I think.
3 Likes
Thats not a bad punishment.
But it will never happen unfortunately.
1 Like
A fair chance for a Sylvanas redemption is for her to willingly put herself on the chopping block and face her execution with dignity.
Anything short of that is unacceptable, unrealistic dribble.
3 Likes
it would be not only a punishment, but also a way of absolution …in a far future.
Execution, and then? I mean, then she ends up with the Arbiter and comes to Revendreht or the Maw, how are the night elves helped then? I mean, it’s at least a little bit more helpful if she first stands up for the crap she did…later her whole life will be judged again, on the day of her true death, by the arbiter.
Then that is it. Her time on Azeroth is done. She as forfeit her right to life a long time ago. The night elves are helped because doing this, the souls of the fallen are avenged, power is restored to the Kaldorei. Sylvanas did not get away with what she had done, and the Kaldorei prove that such crimes cannot be committed with impunity.
This should not be Sylvanas’ choice. She does not deserve a say in this matter.
3 Likes
This has really been the crux of my point all along, that I understand the allegory and where it stems from but don’t feel that it’s as blatantly the subtext in regards to Arthas/Sylvanas as it has been elsewhere in the story. Therefore I didn’t think that asserting it as the interpretation was entirely correct to do, it seemed a little unfair to discard the interpretation of others when the allegory to sexual violence in their story is significantly more subtle.
I’ll use the story of Deathwing to hopefully contextualise it a bit more here.
Neltharion desired Alexstrasza and Ysera as objects with which to breed and produce his offspring.
Neltharion engaged with his consorts resulting in the death of all of them except one - and even the one that survived, Sinestra, was viciously scarred for the rest of her life as a result.
Under Neltharion, the Dragonmaw captured and imprisoned Alexstrasza and forced her to lay eggs for them.
Nowhere in the story of Deathwing is sexual violence explicitly stated to have occurred, but it is undeniably implicit in all of the above.
Neltharion’s view of Alexstrasza and Ysera indicates his view of women overall as objects to be used as he wills, the very idea of him using them as slaves for breeding blatantly holds the connotation of sexual violence.
Neltharion having killed the vast majority of his consorts while trying to “breed” and having left the lone survivor permanently disfigured blatantly holds the connotation of sexual violence.
Alexstrasza having been captured, imprisoned and forced to give birth with the express purpose of providing dragons for the Dragonmaw to use, whether it was her consort actually committing the act or not, blatantly holds the connotation of sexual violence. Alexstrasza was obviously not consenting.
Neltharion was a sexual predator. Not only did he display a viewpoint where women were objects to be used, he acted upon that viewpoint when it came to his consorts and Alexstrasza. In this case, there is nothing about it that’s open to interpretation. Sexual violence, although not explicitly stated, is heavily implied throughout his story. To interpret his story as not containing the subtext of sexual violence I think is as close to objectively wrong as you can get outside of it actually being explicitly stated.
I don’t think that rings true for Arthas/Sylvanas and so although there certainly is symbolism there that can be interpreted as pointing to a subtext of sexual violence - I think given that it hasn’t been as strongly implied as elsewhere in the story of Warcraft, there should be acceptance of other interpretations. Unlike the story of Deathwing where I think not acknowledging the subtext of sexual violence is damaging and minimising a very real danger that exists (predominantly) for women in the real world.
I appreciate that.
4 Likes
I have 10 hidden replies. It’s so nice to tune out from negativity.
Fyi if I don’t reply right away I’m not ignoring you, it’s because I’m shoveling 40 cm of snow out of my driveway.
Here’s a fun youtube video that will pretty much sum up all my replies to Aki forever…
3 Likes
People being rightfully frustrated that there are people who think a war criminal guilty of several genocides and mass torture deserves a chance to “prove she is not a monster” is not negativity lol.
She has had several fair chances to prove she is not a monster. Every time she tortured, enslaved, or murdered someone, she has failed that chance.
This is a chance she has had over and over and over again and she has failed every time. All she had to do was NOT be Azeroths biggest pile of garbage.
11 Likes
The thing is Sylvanas doesn’t have to be more than a soul for that. She doesn’t have to remain undead/alive for that.
4 Likes
I would be good with it if she gets sent to the Maw to try and rescue all the souls that she sent there.
Overall, though I am kinda of ticked off with Blizzard. They’re playing the same bait and switch game with the Alliance playerbase that they played through Cata and MoP - except this time, it’s even worse.
When Cata launched with cut Alliance content, and the Alliance visually getting its butt kicked everywhere, the go to line was “Wait and See”.
When Theramore was blown up in opening event to MoP, even Blizzard Forum Mods posted to say “Wait and See”.
What, wait and see amounted to was putting responsibility for all of it on to Garrosh and absolving the Horde. And then letting Thrall kill steal Garrosh in WoD. I mean, they didn’t even let the Alliance kill Thaelan Songweaver.
So flash forward to BfA, Horde warchief leads a willing Horde on a murderous rampage against the Alliance. Check. Horde is absolved of its sins by pushing all responsibility on to the warchief. Check. Ah, but this time, we’re going to absolve the warchief by giving her a split soul. And will probably push it all on to the Jailer. I mean the Blizz dev interview answer practically writes itself “I really don’t know what more Alliance players could want? We let them raid the Jailer and you know, really, he’s the only one whose responsible for Teldrassil.”
Uggghhhhh…please for the love of all that is holy, Blizz, stop with the faction wars. You can’t write them in a way that is satisfactory, so please stop trying.
9 Likes
Might be me, but it feels like anti sylvanas posters dont really want a discussion, they ask questions so they can come up with reasons why people suck for liking sylvanas
Feels kind of disingenuous, not sure how anyone else feels
3 Likes
I consider this their last stand before 9.2 comes out and they have to face the reality that she’s probably going to be given mercy.
2 Likes