That’s really hard to say, maybe if she was revealed to have planned to use the Forsaken as an army against the Jailer, but at this point it seems like Sylvanas drank Zorvaal’s koolaid a long time ago and everything she’s done since has been for him.
If I were to rewrite Sylvanas’s arc I would have written her to have first tried to break free of the Jailer using the Soul Cage, because the Soul Cage had the power to compell any soul. If Genn broke the Soul Cage and he was responsible for ruining her shot at stopping the Jailer that would have been a really good character development for them both to realize that thier antagonism against eachother is doing more harm than good for the future of Azeroth.
She simply said that the Faction war would never end, basically. Both the Horde and Alliance will find reasons to kill eachother and that went back to her monologue at the start of the book, “if I committed myself to peace with the Alliance how long would it last?”
This next bit is about the Night Elves:
They had used their power not to win a battle or buy time for their people’s evacuation, but to inflict pain and nothing else. Their fury had stripped away every civilized pretense, every semblance of honor, and they had shown who they truly were.
That was what war did. That was what it was for : to give civilized beings permission to do the unthinkable. Only then could you achieve the impossible.
I see NE posters all the time like “I wish we could go back to the good old days when we could be savage and kill everyone without moral restrictions.” These people missed the point entirely.
Sylvanas straight up says that “war makes savages out of civilized men” and I respect that, it’s very Lord of the Flies.
While binding Eyir probably would have given the Jailer earlier access to Mawsworn ascendance (which he ultimately got lucky in getting because we killed Helya and sent her to the Shadowlands shortly after the lantern plan failed), Sylvanas probably still needed a power boost to defeat Bolvar, so likely still needed the Fourth War and the burning of Teldrassil to send as many souls to the Maw as possible.
We now have the context of the Arbiter breaking when we killed Argus, but that means that there wouldn’t have been that much time between then and the War of the Thorns for natural deaths through the universe to feed the Maw, as Sylvanas was still struggling against Malfurion as compared to how easily she handled Bolvar later.
It’s never stated that that’s how she got to the Shadowlands. A Vrykul in BfA just said “You can’t kill death.” and that she wasn’t actually dead. For all we know, she is just powerful enough to travel there, just like Odyn’s Val’kyr.
That’s true. I hadn’t taken into account the short timeframe between Legion and the Fourth War. Still, it’s one of those things that nags at you, you know?
I still hold this lines up with her screaming about how the genocide was necessary to achieve the Jailer’s impossible goal of remaking reality, as was most recently repeated by Banshee Sylvanas to Ranger General Sylvanas before Uther stepped in to help her.
You are supposed to that’s why the cinematic exists.
The Banshee Queen thought she was right and that savagery would win out and yet by the end of BfA the Horde and Alliance signed a peace treaty.
The Banshee Queen in a way represents Sylvanas’s will to survive against all odds. She was willing to become savage to achieve the impossible, that adds another level of nuance to all of this. The Banshee Queen is not gone out of Sylvanas’s persona, part of the ultimatum was that Sylvanas had to live with her legacy, she’s just not allowed to drive the bus anymore.
The Banshee Queen is still valid though, that will to survive against all odds is sometimes needed to be brought out to fight for the right cause. You don’t have to “get” Sylvanas, but I’m 100% positive her fans get her more than anyone else. This story is being written for us.
Hence combine her justifying to herself about doing the unthinkable and her “knowing” the tree would burn one day indicates it was her plan all along, even if her plan had to move up earlier than she intended.
I don’t think it has anything to do with literacy or comprehension or education. You rather try your best to skew anything you can - either seriously or other times out of silliness - to put Sylvanas in the best light you can, whether it fits or not.
Out of curiosity, what’s wrong with people trying to paint Sylvanas in a better light? We all agree she’s done terrible things, no one denies that. The part that’s murky, at least to me, is when did she finally cross the I don’t care just kill ‘em all line.
Sylvanas says she expects Darnassus to burn in her internal monologue.
It’s also possible and in fact, likely that a lot of the things she said in her earlier monologue to Saurfang were coached in terms to get him to come to the conclusion that was valuable to her long term goals… Pitching as many Horde and Alliance members into super hell as possible.
imagine an Arthas fan who would try to spin all the things that Deathknight Arthas did as something about survival against all odds rather than it being about a deprived individual that with the help of a little magic sword had lost all form of morality, empathy and humanity.
Survive against all odds.
Incredible. Sylvanas kills civilians, poisons farmers, raises victims to undeath as it was done to her. And to all who are disgusted by her actions and her many crimes… its actually Sylvanas trying to survive against all odds.
If she had just remained in Lordaeron and took care of her own people… idk maybe build an orphanage for kids and puppies, she would not face so much adversary anymore.
Trying to put a character into better light than they actually stand in usually is either a tactic to deny or distract from the evil intentions the character presents.
I have no empathy for people who try to paint Arthas in a better light. I hope he’s obliterated in the raid.
I just think you don’t care to even understand the other perspective honestly.
I’ve given you the benefit of the doubt when dealing with more antagonistic posters because I think it’s relatively natural to not want to really engage with antagonistic people on any serious level. We also agree on a number of things when it comes to Sylvanas.
But in our conversation I feel I was entirely fair and balanced and provided significant context and explanation as to why I didn’t agree with the implications of you and others.
At no point did it feel like you were actually trying to understand at all, there really wasn’t much listening and instead it felt like you were just here to assert your interpretation with absolutely no desire to ever admit that another interpretation may just have validity as well.
