He didn’t say that though. He lured NE boats to engage him on the beach. He sent a orc boarding party to capture the boats knowing full well he was stealing boats from the NE evacuation efforts.
Re-read the damn story.
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this statement comes from the planning phase…from sylvanas, from saurfang we get later the confirmation that the horde - before Teldrassil burned - suffered considerably more losses than the night elves. Which is only natural, the horde army was superior to the night elves 8 to 1. .
I have no investment in the story, I just find this ignorance and arrogance to really try to throw something at me with false arguments and lies here…terrible. If it is not to defend …then stop doing it.
if you really want a "fair"argumentation…then stop being false…
You’re just a god damn troll…yes, we all know this.
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as we know by now…also through interviews, it was only a strategy to bait saurfang anyway…the wound that never heals…that sylvanas inflicted on him, or should we say he inflicted on himself because he bought sylvanas’ lies…
a troll…who knows more about the story then you ever have, you only have a problem because i repeatedly proves you of to be lying…interesting, maybe you should stop lying, then I wouldn’t have to confront you all the time…then who is the troll from us?
You been proven wrong so many times that it’s embarrassing
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Everyone knows that Sylvanas wanted to feed as many souls as she could to the Maw, as you said that’s no secret.
We’re talking specifically how Sylvanas wanted to execute the maw soul feeding. Sylvanas, Saurfang, and Blightcaller planned and executed most of that plan(the latter 2 unbeknownst) up until the point that Saurfang allowed Malfurion to live. Evacuating many people as possible, while maintaining a reasonable amount of hostages was a part of their plan and was being executing up until again, the point Saurfang allowed Malfurion to live.
Saurfang saw civilians evacuating well before the plan changed due to Saurfang actions against Malfurion.
Ren is 100% right in her statement that the Horde provided many civilians opportunities to escape. It was part of their plan after all.
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micah…show me pls the evidence…if you have non…stop thinking you must defend someone because you owe him something…Your spine is weaker than absorbent cotton and you change your mind more often than some people change their boxers anyway.
Hardly that you feel the headwind … you change the sides, if with one blow all sylvanas suporter would be gone and only night elves there … would you sing with them just as … do not think that anyone with a spark of understanding would not know … how often you have already changed your position because headwind came up. So spare me your ridiculous being and even take me on igno if it’s easier for you, but don’t expect to be taken seriously by me.
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Medical journals are fine, but I do think you need to keep in mind their context.
In this case I don’t know that the intention was to entirely redefine what it is, but to explore the the factors beyond just the physical act itself. Which is really important to do.
I guess what you need to understand as well from the perspective of the other side is
None of this is specific to sexual violence. There’s a wide array of abuses that victims are put through to achieve the same thing and for the same reasons.
The sexual violence is the weapon, not the motive or results. In this case sexual violence is not the weapon that Arthas used. He used other methods of abuse to achieve the same goal and for the same reasons, just as some people do in the real world. Not every abuser uses sexual violence to violate their victims.
As I’ve said, I can see how the link would be made and I don’t have any issues with it - there’s plenty of logic in the connection. The “leer” part of Edge of Night undoubtedly holds sexual connotations and so Arthas had obviously been framed as, at the very least, viewing Sylvanas in that light.
But a couple of times now you and others have seemed to make comments with the implication that it’s the only interpretation and that if it’s not how you interpret it then you’re interpreting it wrong. I hope you can see how others might not interpret it in the same way now.
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The story a good war even ends exactly with the realization who was the wound that never heals applied, saurfang, he would have been a problem, to get him out of the way was easier to use the horde more effectively…um to kill more people (Also more on their own side)
It was Saurfang’s plan, but not Nathanos’ and Sylvanas’. In the end, she even mocked him by saying that it was his plan after all.
How do we know this was the real intent rather than lies to Saurfang?
In the end she decided to burn the tree after hearing there were still many people there.
Initially Horde fans blamed Saurfang to make it necessary for Sylvanas to kill everyone in the tree. Because he didn’t kill Malfurion.
But now we learn actually Sylvanas wanted to kill as many people as possible to empower the jailer.
These two are mutually exclusive. You can’t have both Death.
I think this is why Sylvanas fans feel like people are out to get them because they are sylvanas fans. I don’t think thats true at all.
What happens is cases like this where we take a little quote, completely ignore the context of what actually happened and people attempt to retwrite the story as somehow Sylvanas is good, she did us a favor, she made do with a bad situation and etc and etc.
We all know and say Blizzard is tone-deaf. But even they don’t minimize what Sylvanas did, in her ranger general cinematic that all Sylvanas fans seem to adore. She says it was irredeemable. She doesn’t make excuses or minimize it but here we have fans who unironically try to do the same.
Some sylvanas fans here ask why Arthas or Garrosh don’t take the same heat that Sylvanas and her fans get and the reason is simple. No one says they are good people or could have done worse but didn’t out of the goodness of their heart or their morals. They don’t try to perform revisionist history to make Sylvanas into a better person than the horrible person she is depicted as.
I honestly don’t understand it. Sylvanas is supposed to be the unapologetic anti-hero and then turned villain and now anti-hero again. Why are you all making excuses for that she herself doesn’t acknowledge or make?
We also have to consider the anima percent. Malurian’s soul in Anima was probably worth more than Teldrassil combined since we know anima carries a value based on deeds.
Sylvanas considered one soul (Malfurian’s) all she needed to send to the Jailer. When Malfurian was spared she had to replace that soul in bulk.
Her plan was to send only soldiers + Malfurian which would have been “A Good War” we all agree killing soldiers and the military commander is fair in war in Warcraft. Sylvanas only intended for military targets.
unfortunately, she starts to lie as soon as she runs out of arguments…and says such things more often…iit’s a scheme…and if that doesn’t help either she tries to difamate you as a troll, and if that doesn’t help either…she throws herself into the victim role, all already experienced…do your own impression with her, i can only recommend, but that’s my analysis about her.
micah is a weak person, who turns like a shuttle in the wind, depending on where there are more people, she/he just doesn’t want to stand alone with opinions, actually a worgenfan, but she/he keeps switching positions depending on where the wind is blowing.
deathisfinal often tries to argue neutrally, unfortunately her statements are also too often pulled out of context, or are even lies too
No one is denying that Sylvanas wanted to kill as many people as possible. We’re talking about how that was being planned and executed. The end goal for Sylvanas wasn’t just Teldrassil; everyone knows that already.
Unfortunately, until now you were seen as saying the exact opposite.
What was planned means there was an intent to save but there never really was any intent to follow through with any of it.
If so why earlier say otherwise? You are moving the goal post in a circle my friend.
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I’m not interested in whatever there is between you and these three and I have no interest in getting involved.
I’m not here for drama, I’m here to discuss things.
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which means that all the arguments that convinced saurfang, all saurfang’s planning, all actually served to trap him…she knew him and knew orcish honor very well, she knew he could never stand by her…so what did she have to do to effectively use the horde to achieve her goals, any goals? Inflict a wound on him that will never heal, that goes so deep that he CAN’T stand by it, that he would rather fight the horde under her than fight with her. That was the point of the WOT, it was the biggest hurdle for her, to get him out of the way to realize her plans.
To destroy saurfang she must destroy his figure in the horde…and she did this, flawlessness…and saurfang helped her even doing it.
Zahir, you really might want to tone down the personal attacks.
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that’s why I said make your own experience with it.
And she was authentically dissapointed he couldn’t deliver a clean war like she wanted. That was the context of her “I trusted you!” line in the Mak’gora.
You do a lot cherry picking of the lore yourself, for someone who accuses others of it.