[SPOILER] Is Baine key to Redemption for the Horde?

[Cailias-wyrmrest-accord (Cailias)]

No.

Keep the Alliance out of the Horde.

Hang Baine and serve him up for dinner.

[Cryptkeeps-thrall (Cryptkeeps)]

On top of all that nonsense, 6 CORE races still don’t even have motives to be invested in the damned thing. The Dwarves, Gnomes, Draenei, Tauren, BEs, and Bilgewater (outside of War-Profiteering) have no dogs in this fight. Of those that do have reasons, the NE and Forsaken contention with the opposing faction is independent of their factions. The Darkspear have been ripped apart by their own faction, the Gilneans are largely irrelevant. This just leaves Humans and Orcs, and people wonder why these two always take center stage? That doesn’t even touch on Pandas and Allied Races.

Worgen should have been more relevant and involved in this expansion but the only role they’ve served is just being Night Elf sidekicks, and Genn is practically just Anduin’s pet rather than more of a vengeance driven monster that he was in Legion.

And Worgen seem to be hardly involved in any of the incursions, it almost feels like Blizzard purposefully excludes them because they just don’t like the race whereas Lightforged and Void Elves get instant use and are everywhere despite only being around recently. Really shows where the writer’s biases lie, they dislike Worgen pure and simple.

[Yagarr-moon-guard (Yagarr)]

There’s a difference between not being a racist and worshipping the enemy.

Baine wants peace. He doesn’t want the Horde to lose the war, but he doesn’t want to lose the Horde’s value systems either.

What he did wasn’t very effective, but at least it demonstrated a Horde character willing to chose their morality over obediently following a genocidal tyrant.

[Cailias-wyrmrest-accord (Cailias)]

worshipping the enemy.

Yeah, worshiping the enemy would be like, oh I don’t know, sending a part of his horn to Anduin in some pathetic gesture of submissiveness.

[Lithya-sargeras (Lithya)]

So much Horde QQ for Baine for one expansion when the Alliance had to put up with Andiun and Jaina for a decade.

[Zuleika-hyjal (Zuleika)]

So much Horde QQ for Baine for one expansion when the Alliance had to put up with Andiun and Jaina for a decade.

People have been complaining about Baine at least since Tides of War. It’s just intensified now because he’s doing something for the first time in several expansions.

Besides, you lurve Jaina now, so shouldn’t we take heart from that? Maybe one day Baine will be the most bloodthirsty anti-Alliance leader we’ve got.

[Murdra-wildhammer (Murdra)]

Teldrassil is really going to be swept under the rug isn’t it?

[Lithya-sargeras (Lithya)]

Not really. She refuses to attack the horde because the trolls are sad now.

[Zuleika-hyjal (Zuleika)]

Not really. She refuses to attack the horde because the trolls are sad now.

Eh, they were still officially unaligned when she left. I’ll bet she wouldn’t have said the same about an actual Horde city.

[Felology-khazgoroth (Felology)]

Baine showed compassion and honor by returning Derek to us. I fear that choice may cost him his life.

For years I pitied Sylvanas for what Arthas did to her. But nothing remains of the hero she was. Perhaps now the Horde will see that, too .

this dialogue made me gag

[Cryptkeeps-thrall (Cryptkeeps)]

Is Baine a necessary evil?

[Desanvos-dalaran (Desanvos)]

Honestly for me it more brings up the interesting debate of is it still cannibalism if your closest ancestor is a cow and we spice and barbecue it first.

As a Highborne I barely have to recognize a tauren as more than animal anyway.

[Yagarr-moon-guard (Yagarr)]

That’s not submission. It’s an act of friendship. It’s so Anduin can remember him.

I thought it was unfittingly romantic too, but it’s not submission.

[Zuleika-hyjal (Zuleika)]

For years I pitied Sylvanas for what Arthas did to her. But nothing remains of the hero she was.

And why is that, hmm, Blizz? Why is the Horde not allowed to keep its heroes?

Perhaps now the Horde will see that, too.

Oh, gosh! You know, all the time Sylvanas was invading other people’s territory, burning civilians by the treeful, and torturing newly-raised undead, I thought she was just having a bad day. But now, now that Baine has sent Derek back to his family…I suddenly realize–she’s a baddie!

[Cryptkeeps-thrall (Cryptkeeps)]

Oh, gosh! You know, all the time Sylvanas was invading other people’s territory, burning civilians by the treeful, and torturing newly-raised undead, I thought she was just having a bad day. But now, now that Baine has sent Derek back to his family …I suddenly realize–she’s a baddie!

It’s funny because players themselves fall into that pit-hole too.

Sylvanas threatens and actually tries to sludge an entire kingdom full of innocent people who wear fancy top hats = i sleep
Sylvanas threatens and actually burns down a tree full of innocent people who have pretty moonlit eyes = OMG WTH SO EVIL I CAN’T BELIEVE SHE’D STOOP SO LOW!

[Galenorn-wyrmrest-accord (Galenorn)]

Teldrassil is really going to be swept under the rug isn’t it?

You already know it is. Just like Gilneas, it’ll be reduced to a buzzword a few NPCs toss around to add gravitas to something they have to say. The only meaningful thing they can do to keep it from being handwaved away, is to dismantle the Horde, in one way or another. And they won’t do that.

I mean, I’d love if they did. I’d resub, for life if they actually had a reasonable outcome like that. But you know they won’t. Jaina and Genn are both softening their views, and the Night Elves are about to have their hands full with Azshara. After that, it’s unite, and defeat N’zoth with the power of friendship. And what’s a little genocide now and then between friends?

[Cryptkeeps-thrall (Cryptkeeps)]

You already know it is. Just like Gilneas, it’ll be reduced to a buzzword a few NPCs toss around to add gravitas to something they have to say. The only meaningful thing they can do to keep it from being handwaved away, is to dismantle the Horde, in one way or another. And they won’t do that.

Well at least there’s still a chance of reclaiming Gilneas due to how it’s not— hahahaha I’m sorry, I couldn’t hold a straight face while typing that.

[Jazia-sargeras (Jazia)]

Seriously though - having the other faction hand-pick a leader is mark against , not a mark for .

The Alliance approved of Vol’jin.

[Carmageddon-hyjal (Carmageddon)]

I don’t recall Baine doing anything that sacrificed the wellbeing of his own people for peace

He literally warned the enemy leader that a Horde attack was coming. How many more Tauren could have died because he warned Theramore to expect an attack?

[Jazia-sargeras (Jazia)]

He expected the Horde to march on Theramore right away. Not hang around waiting for the sake of Garrosh’s secret plot.

They would have had a couple of days warning at most. Long enough for some of the civies to evacuate… not long enough for Theramore to receive any significant reinforcements. The Horde would have still completely destroyed the city even with conventional warfare.