[SPOILER] Is Baine key to Redemption for the Horde?

[Lithya-sargeras (Lithya)]

Could you show me where Alliance killed and burned whimpering Horde women and children? Thanks.

[Sarm-malganis (Sarm)]

All in all its pretty pathetic the Horde player base are excusing fighting for Sylvanas for head canoning some atrocities to equate it to teldrassil.

Messages like these are incredibly irritating. Just because we’re trying to piece together some reasons that the story is the way it is, doesn’t mean we’re trying to make excuses for ourselves. This kind of thing is antagonistic and only makes people not want to take you seriously.

[Laeth-hakkar]

points at Battle of Dazarlor

You set civilians on fire there.

And of course there’s the Vulpera.

[Lithya-sargeras (Lithya)]

I call those false equivalencies.
Just observe Laeth putting merchants coming out of their shops to attack soldiers with sticks to Teldrassil.

[Sarm-malganis (Sarm)]

She specifically said that it’s not on the level of Teldrassil.

Edit: Welp, that doesn’t really help my argument.

[Laeth-hakkar]

You don’t think the Civilians in Teldrassil would have fought back against invaders?

[Lithya-sargeras (Lithya)]

You don’t think the Civilians in Teldrassil would have fought back against invaders?

Idk about you but if a pregnant woman or a child comes at me trying to defend her mom I would not be burning them alive.
But hey thats just me.

Maybe you have other values.

[Hahahahahaha-grizzly-hills (Hahahahahaha)]

Actually I am right. Most of her resources went to clearing the way to getting those valkyr.

Actually you am wrong. She sent ALL her forces to save the world, to the point that Nathanos was begging her to take a few more troops with her on her personal mission.

On topic though, Baine sucks, and most Horde players hate him.

[Laeth-hakkar]

You’re just making stuff up now and ignoring what’s being said.

[Lithya-sargeras (Lithya)]

You’re just making stuff up now and ignoring what’s being said.

Deralyn said the tree only has civilians. Mostly kids and women in there.
Battle for Dazaralor we have shop keepers coming out of their shops with sticks to face soldiers.

I do no see the Alliance killing any of the troll kids running around.
But you were defending those burnings with Teldrassil as seen here.

You don’t think the Civilians in Teldrassil would have fought back against invaders?

So I pretty much rest my case.

Edit: Welp, that doesn’t really help my argument.

I can read between the lines. Leath was pretty obvious.

[Belandas-kirin-tor (Belandas)]

Interesting that Jaina is sympathetic to Sylvanas, wonder how a conversation between these two women would go. Might be awkward, given that their only real connection is Arthas.

[Laeth-hakkar]

Deralyn said the tree only has civilians. Mostly kids and women in there.
Battle for Dazaralor we have shop keepers coming out of their shops with sticks to face soldiers.

And shopkeepers with sticks aren’t civilians???

I do no see the Alliance killing any of the troll kids running around.

Probably because Blizzard wouldn’t put that in game.

But you were defending those burnings with Teldrassil as seen here.

I did no such thing.

You’re claiming the shopkeepers were fair game. But keep putting the civilians of Teldrassil who never encountered soldiers up as a prop, if they had invaded like oronally planned some of the civilians would have fought back.

[Laeth-hakkar]

I can read between the lines.

You’re reading everything but the lines.

[Lithya-sargeras (Lithya)]

Of course the shop keepers are fair game if they literally come out of their shops with weapons.
I would be agreeing with you if these trolls were huddled in their houses and Dark Irons or whomever still gave the order to burn them anyway.

I would actually loved for that to happen because it would validate the Horde in fearing what the Alliance could do. Horrible in action but great for the narrative.

[Laeth-hakkar]

Of course the shop keepers are fair game if they literally come out of their shops with weapons.

And this invalidates your whole argument.

Killing civilians is bad. Except when it’s not.

[Lithya-sargeras (Lithya)]

If a civilian takes a weapon they cease to be a civilian.

[Laeth-hakkar]

And you honestly belive the Night Elves wouldn’t have done so had Teldrassil been invaded?

[Lithya-sargeras (Lithya)]

Considering Deralyn said there is no one there but children and women and completely defensless.

I doubt it would have amounted to anything that a kid with a stick telling you to leave her mom alone.
Otherwise if there were any militia forming for more combat then yeah they will get what was coming to them.

[Laeth-hakkar]

Which is exactly what the shopkeepers did.

[Droité-tanaris (Droité)]

Actually I am right. Most of her resources went to clearing the way to getting those valkyr.

Actually you am wrong. She sent ALL her forces to save the world, to the point that Nathanos was begging her to take a few more troops with her on her personal mission.

On topic though, Baine sucks, and most Horde players hate him.

“Most” Horde players (like most players in general) also barely read the flavor text for quests and certainly don’t read the books.

Like, “The Shattering” gives an enormous amount of insight into WHY Baine is friendly with Jaina; and why he would try to warn Jaina to get her civilians out of Theramore in “Tides of War” (and honestly, with Garrosh’s plan being what it was, Baine’s warning to Jaina amounted to nothing tangible). Theramore gave Baine asylum AND the gold necessary to help him reclaim Thunder Bluff from Magatha during the Grimtotem Rebellion. Jeez, I wonder why he feels indebted a bit?

“As our Fathers Before Us” gives us insights into not only WHY Baine did not go overkill in retribution for Taraujo (being satisfied with building “The Great Gate of Mulgore” and the deaths of Hawthorne and all of his men), but also the political climate of the Tauren during Cata. Large factions of them wanted to LEAVE the Horde due to rightly blaming many of the hardships they were facing on to their affiliations with Garrosh and the Horde (and Taraujo would certainly count as a hardship).

So … yeah, they hate him. But they hate him for shallow Red/Blue reasons.