/spit on Calia

Lore Story Forum
142

Yes the Horde was an alliance of various races that banded together for survival i get that but we were no were near what the alliance stood for. we were always a gruff and war-torn people and thats what added to the appeal of the horde, a more barbaric society compared to the alliance civilized tone.

I should have clarified earlier, What i want is to follow her until they are done with her story,(in which i would like her to survive just be out of the picture) I understand they couldn’t do that but at least let me be loyal until the end. Her story is a huge part of the forsaken, and it dose not feel the same with out her, The Forsaken were suppose to be the Darker race, it added that variety for players like me that like a little edge to it. She represented them perfectly.

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143

But maintaining this to some extent would be increasingly artificial. The more the Horde grew, the more likely it was to grow beyond a bunch of primitives sitting around in the middle of a desert. And as it grew, being that is also an Alliance of Races and Nations, the more it would reflect the Alliance. The goal shouldn’t so much be making sure the Horde remains contrarian, but hits a level of stability and power that allows for its differences to shine through. ATM … the Horde and Alliance are World Powers. Stability, Growth, and future prosperity is a bare minimum at this point to justify both their continued existences. Its what you add on top of that should define them.

As for the Forsaken, I’m fine with them being edgy. What I grew less fine with was their constant maintenance of the “Alliance of Convenience” … that honestly kind of lasted all the way up through BfA. They were just “Too Cool for Friends”. Even the BEs were able to bleed more Red than the Forsaken after a certain point; especially Lor’themar. Which meant to maintain that part of their fantasy, it came increasingly at the expense of the rest of the Horde races racial fantasies … as “The Alliance of Convenience” between them and the Forsaken could never be broken no matter how inconvenient Sylvie’s Forsaken truly became for the rest of them.

Its fine they’re edgy. Its fine they have dark humor. Its fine that they even have Blight, and have good reasons to mistrust the living (at least humans). What its not fine is when that edge started getting so pervasive that the only way to justify why the rest of the Horde wasn’t coming down harder and harder on their actions was because of “Plot Convenience”. Them constantly looking the other way whenever it was “convenient” they do so.

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144

It could have been a potentially much more interesting story beat if (assuming most of bfa never happened) if we found ourselves going into shadowlands to fix it and help her find her way out of the story.

Its kind of already artificial in the sense that any time the horde gets content its just to hit the reset button and reduce horde to being at the mercy of alliance goodwill. ie the horde never grows.

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145

Im fine with Voss but Calia is too far. I suppose i could be fine with the forsaken taking a more dull edged approach with the horde, after all, they did stick with us this long, and i refuse to be ignorant about story development. The Forsaken will have to change to stay with this new horde, ill give that too you. But still let me follow until the end its all i want. You could play it off as they didn’t know i was truly on her side, just like in the loyalist questline.

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146

You do not recall correctly. Calia told Parquel to head towards the Alliance. She then dropped her hood and started full out recruiting Forsaken. Sylvanas sensed something wrong then. Yes, technically a Dark Ranger on a bat who saw Calia drop her hood flew over and told Sylvanas she was there, but it was Calia who instigated the whole thing and shouldn’t have been there from the beginning.

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147

I agree. And as for Voss … as forced as she is in her current role … she could be made to work. At the bare minimum she does represent Forsaken Free Will and the Forsaken experience VERY well; even if both of those led her to keeping her distance from the rest of her people for so long. Though … considering she’s essentially trapped in the rotting husk of a 16 year old, you could chalk that up to her rambunctious teenage years I suppose. She had a rough coming of age period.

Plus, lets be honest. If Blizz allows her access to her entire skillset she is easily conceptually one of the most powerful melee fighters in the setting; being the bizarre rogue, warrior, mage hybrid she is. She is also just about the only character in the entire franchise that could be considered an anti-Light User specialist … which is pretty nifty for a prospective Forsaken lead.

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148

Agreed. With some TLC Lilian could become a really cool character later on. One who i would gladly leave the fate of my people with. Id love for her to through away this need to prove the forsaken to the horde, we have done that plenty.

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149

The Horde is now more of an alliance than the actual Alliance is now.

Oh, the irony.

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150

Well … part of that is due to the net negatives we always get from Villain bat rounds, and the massive neglect we get in between. But … yeah.

151

It kind of sucks that every time the alliance gets focus, their characters get massive power boosts, but when the horde gets focus, they lose a lore character or five.

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152

Almost makes us even then, for all of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd wars.

153

Pretty much. Part of this is because they get focus in between Faction Conflict expansions, and the Horde absolutely does not. Part of this is because as the defender in the Faction Conflict expansions, their reps get quite a bit of plot armor … even if their locals do not. As a result, with characters alone at least, the Alliance always sees net positives for power boosts and development.

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154

Yes, that is also part of the story. The way I see it, one of reasons why Calia might want to learn more about the forsaken is that it started with.

So you see, for me, the Forsaken weren’t monsters. They were friends. It was the Scourge, the shambling, stumbling things that wore my friends’ faces— they had become monsters.

And she acted during the Gathering based on that assumption. Yes, Sylvanas recognized that some forsaken were defecting, but, this part IMO is relevant too:

At that moment, one of the priests returned, urging her bat to go as quickly as it could. She looked shocked and sickened.
“My lady!” she gasped. “The priestess—I didn’t recognize her until her hood
fell off—I can scarce believe it—”
“Spit it out,” Sylvanas snarled, her body taut as a bowstring.
“My lady—it’s Calia Menethil!”

Her identity was revealed by one of the forsaken.

And there are more potential things that Calia might learn, and probably not like, about the forsaken. Not fantasy forsaken, like she imagined after the time spent with Alonsus, but the real ones.

Well, the devs decided that it is Calia Menethil who have to be that Light undead, so she had to die somehow. Build up is rushed, and there are still some things that make some people scratch their heads.

Also, on one hand, she should not be there. On the other, she wanted to check if she could see her family, so, she would likely do somemething emotional rather than reasonable anyway. But I definitely agree, that did not go well. And she seems to see it that way too

Calia Menethil (pre-patch):
I thought to be a bridge between the living and the undead. My first attempt ended in sorrow. But I have not given up hope, Lady Sanguinar.

Would be interesting if Voss would eventually try to get rid of Menethil… But it’s just a speculation.

gl hf

155

Nothing screams “even” like punishing an entire fan base/player base for the decisions they had no choice in making, for the decisions blizzard makes on their own.

Totally fair the Horde has a rag tag small group of lore figures now and the alliance has a dozen or so Demi god level anime characters leading their forces.

Also if you’re going to throw the whole current horde into the 1st and 2nd war I guess I’m not sure if that works considering it was literally only Orcs (a few non current horde aligned trolls, and ogres) and the only Orcs still alive that probably took part in said wars is like Eitrigg and maybe a hand few of other.

And wasn’t the 3rd war a war fought between the forces of Azeroth and the Legion/Human Hero Arthas?

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156

That dialogue was one of Sylvanas’ Dark Ranger scouts patrolling the gathering reporting what she saw. It was Calia who revealed herself at the gathering, not that she was discovered while incognito and a forsaken revealed her for who she was. Calia purposely dropped her hood to reveal herself and recruit forsaken defying the agreement she had with Anduin and almost starting a war right then and there.

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157

I’ve re-read the “ARATHI HIGHLANDS, THORADIN’S WALL” chapter. And nowhere is says that the priestess who was talking to Sylvanas is a dark ranger. Since only Desolate Council members were allowed to go, likely it was one of them. But no confirmation on that page or those nearby.

Yes, she listened to Parqual, then revealed herself, believing into her false ideas. Then her identity was specified to Sylvanas who thought that Calia was long dead.

Yup, Anduin also told her that.

I am not saying that Calia is not portrayed as one of reasons for the way the event turned out to go. But there is more than just that. I highlight that she though all of the forsaken are her friends. Yet it was a forsaken, who confirmed her identity to Sylvanas.

gl hf

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158

As i see it, currently they have a couple of options with Calia, they can kill voss and lots of forsaken or horde for character development so she knows the cost of peace, they can kill her so the horde has another reason to go to war once the 5th one starts or they can just keep voss and calia, meaning that SL is only a detour and calia is going just because she is calia not because she is forsaken.

Look, for a 30+ woman calia comes off as incredibly naive and preachy that is in fact a character flaw that has me on the fence( i dunno if i like it or not), i will admit i basked on the schadenfreude once she was given to the forsaken because at the time i didnt give a frick, i was still salty about the whole 8.2.5 so yea… after a while i sympathized because they would have to bear with her.

Make no mistake, since bts i dislike her because… she is like anduin, but worse because she is older, at least anduin had the excuse of being snot nosed and half of his faction doesnt like him now.

spoiler

Summary

and he goes poopscooping to cope, imagine recieving crap all day from all sides, your ideals all come crashing down and that the only moment you can be at peace is when you go scoop literal crap, still dislike him tho.

Currently i want tyrande to kill her so she can do both factions a favor, she is giving me this weird xe’ra vibes that she’s going to be murdered for being an insufferable piece of work, however i worry about the implications of that, shes… hardly forsaken its immersion breaking if the horde rallies under that excuse to fight the alliance it would be weird all over.

The voss option is no better, because it would be a minus for the horde roster of characters and they really need them unlike the bloated alliance however it would make more sense to rally under voss’ death than under calia.

159

I actually wanted to come back and talk about Voss, since she’s a big key piece to all of this.

I don’t want Voss as Leader of the Forsaken. I think in the absence of Sylvanas, anarchy might be better, where it has no governing body, only the military to protect it. It’s basically their only need, in both the short and long term.

I do think, however, Voss should get camera time to actually be developed as to why she suddenly gives a lick of a (expletive) about the Forsaken, rather than Blizzard working her mouth like a puppet to explain: “We didn’t actually think about this so we took a neutral character and made her Horde, hyuk-hyuk!”.

I think she should be a prominent character for the Forsaken story, since her hardships reflect the general beats of the overall narrative but in no way an authority that others should answer to.

Also Calia Menethil can go back into the dumpster.

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160

However they use Voss or Calia, I feel it has to be in the context of working with the various remaining Forsaken authorities, like the heads of the Dreadguard, Deathstalkers, RAS, Cult of Shadow, Admiralty, etc.

I’d prefer we didn’t have Calia, but if we have her it should be as one figure among the wider cast of OG Forsaken.

Calia as the useful puppet of a bunch of scheming zombies is a fun concept.

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161

Am I the only one that is just indifferent to Calia?

Are there really that many left though? I remember that one Deathguard from WotlK, but that’s about it. We haven’t had any long standing forsaken, really.

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