I just think people don’t like that Calia is being forced into Forsaken leadership when there are 1)far more capable characters who can take over and 2)She has zero experience leading a nation, let alone a nation of undead who just lost their banshee queen
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On point one, I’d have to ask again: Who?
There’s really no one. There’s Belmont, Alexi Barov who gives us a quest to kill his brother… and Voss.
Maybe Alonsus Faol, but he’s busy being irrelevant.
On point two, she’d at least have more experience than any of the individuals I listed. Even though she was a girl when the Scourge ran through her homeland? She was the daughter of a king and was likely being groomed for some form of leadership role.
Belmont, maybe. But he’s… just kind of a deathstalker.
I get that it was clunky and it feels… weird to say the least, but there aren’t that many Forsaken characters, as any time the Forsaken got any spot light? The story was pretty much just “Sylvanas tries a thing, gloats, then fails.”
Edit: I’ll agree that she has zero experience ACTUALLY leading beyond possible tutoring. Much less, as you said, leading undead.
I suppose there is Koltira, but he’s just as much sworn to the Ebon Blade.
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Another idea is the forsaken, could in theory remake the Desolate Council and have Belmont, Voss, Calia and one of the Apothecaries on it.
It would give multiple voices to different aspects of forsaken society. Sounds reasonable to me
I would also add, that given the effects of the Light on undead, her presence in the horde could be a temptation for the devs, current or future ones, to give some “development” to the forsaken, which could result in simply eradicating the archetype, that people know and like, from the game (since there is no substitute for the forsaken fantasy in the horde).
If you take a look at the cast of the forsaken, there are many branches in their society: death guard, apothecaries, dark rangers, executors, maybe even the cult is still active. Each has more than one member. Each has somebody with at least limited leadership experience.
By her own admission, she was never taught such skills
I was never taught how to rule, Anduin, because no one expected me to. I never formally studied politics or strategy.
© Before the Storm
There are enough candidates that have some background, so each could be potentially developed. Which is arguably a far better option to show that the forsaken were masters to endure and survive though horrible events, than adding an outsider which somehow could teach them. Seems… mildly insulting IMO.
gl hf
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Alonus faol you know the actual forsaken who understood what they’ve gone through from lordearon who is already respected by most forsaken. Who has minimal ties to the Alliance(till golden ruined him).
Considered that one with a touch of sarcasm. But I imagine there’d be just as many angry individuals because of the massive tonal shift.
I did. I kinda had to, because I couldn’t remember a single one of them except for one guy in WotlK and Voss. (Which is sad, because I should have remembered Belmont more quickly, given how many times he’s been there to hand out quests.)
Alright, cool. I was wrong. I just made the assumption based off of what would have made sense.
This is dumb.
That’s kinda how I felt about Sylvanas WotlK and onwards when she was leading the Forsaken.
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Well, I did not play retail since early MoP till the current pre-patch, so in my memory are only:
- Velonara. Story of someone so close to Sylvanas who would regain trust and forge relationships with others could be interesting.
- Koltira could be considered one of horde supporters. Not a leadership material, but as a counselor it could work IMO.
- Arcanus. That guy is interesting and criminally underutilized in the story. A lich who broke out of the control of the Lich King on his own. What would be a better time to revisit this character?
- Barov. To be honest, he would need more development and I know about him mostly because of how troublesome it was to do their quests on PvP Classic servers.
- Voss. But she would require more explanation anyway. She seems rather shady so far, with her sudden care about the future of the forsaken. After she told in BfA that she has plans about her own future, not sure how genuine she is when she says that.
And I am sure others, who actually played the game, could add something about Belmont, Faranell, Tattersail, and so on.
gl hf
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It really rustles my jimmies that theyre forcing calia down our throats like that, many of their story choices are really questionable as of late.
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Here’s a list of death guard commanders theoretically in charge (locked in time by content) of the Forsaken holdings.
Executors – military and civil functions. https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Executor
Grand Executor – C in C appointed by sylvanas.
High Executor – Commands Forsaken armies, also act as regional governers.
Executor - Acts like a lieutenant or captain. Has substantial authority over Forsaken squads or small towns.
Grand Executor Mortuus - Forsaken High Command
High Executor Crenshaw - Lights dawn Cathedral
High Executor Anselm – Vengence Landing
High Executor Darthalia – Tarren Mill
High Executor Derrington -the Bulwark
High Executor Hadrec – The Sepulcher
High Executor Mavren – the Ghostlands
High Executor Wroth – Venomspite
Executor Arren – Deathknell
Executor Cornell – Emberstone Village
Executor Zygand – Brill
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The fundamental problem with this of course is that in such an anarchistic role, the Forsaken bring nothing of value to their “Alliance of Convenience” that they maintained up through even BfA. In fact, once the Cata era of Sylvanas really kicked in the Forsaken’s Racial Fantasy increasingly pushed the boundary of coming at the expense of the Racial Fantasies of the other Horde races. Simply by the fact that due to the realities of game mechanics, the Horde could never abandon the Alliance … no matter how one-sided, exploitative, and inconvenient it became. An anarchistic, military state rising from the Forsaken’s current pathetic situation would worsen that.
The Forsaken don’t just “need a military to protect it” … their remaining strength is insufficient to that anymore; especially if they want to continue acting as the antagonistic pricks they became. They do need to at this point truly become a part of the Horde that has now tolerated so much of their BS, and even now is shielding them from the worst the Alliance could offer. They need the Horde more than ever … its time they finally bring something to the table sufficient enough to make that effort worth it. Simply put, the fools need to at least become compatible enough with the Horde at least to justify them being a part of the Horde at all anymore. That change is needed.
As for Voss … yeah, she was the “last semideveloped man standing”. However, she has slowly become more Horde leaning since WoD; has always been pretty mistrusting of humanity; and she at least does represent the ideals of Forsaken Free Will and the Forsaken Experience very well. Even of both of those things she embodies led her to keep her distance from them for so long.
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Thus one of th reasons why I wanted the Forsaken to resettle in Theramore. Dread Admiral Proudmoore, Lord of Theramore notwithstanding, the Forsaken being physically closer to develop better ties with the other original races could have opened up very interesting stories. Hell, let them develop hilariously closer ties with the Tauren, the ones that helped get them in the Horde in the first place, two for one deal in terms of development.
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Whenever I see people proposing Theramore it does always seem to come from Alliance players who have the ulterior motive of “if the Forsaken get plugged into that tiny fragment of inhospitable land 5 groups are already forced to try to survive in, we can rebuild ALL the Human kingdoms”. Which … no thanks. Lordaeron is as dead a Kingdom as Alterac is.
The Forsaken do not need to abandon all their cultural territories because a bunch of Humans who should have resettled in the already constantly decreasing populations south 18 years ago believe its their divine right to resettle those lands. I personally think it would be far more interesting if the Forsaken can continue building up their closest relationships with the other EK Horde (or prospective Horde) races. Like the BEs, Frostwolves, and Revantusk (Forest Trolls).
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My ulterior motive is to to see Theramore built up with lovely Forsaken buildings with Dread Admiral Proudmoore, Lord of Theramore at it’s helm, in a place where their storylines wouldn’t be a constant repeat of “Wha the humans are attacking us again, look how mean they are to us. /sadface”.
I’ve said this before, if I had my way all of Lordaeron would just be an contested hell hole of plaguelands and wandering (presumably mindless) undead which would serve as a boarder between Alliance territory and the Horde holdout of Quel’thalas.
I hate everyone’s whinging about how things don’t change, but then hold on to things like"cultural territories" tooth and nail and then wonder why all the stories are either boring repeats of the same plotlines over and over, or stupid plotlines that lead to the same ones over and over. BfA was announced with Red Kalimdor and Blue Eastern Kingdoms and my thought was “Oh we’re finally going to settle this stupid back and forth with Ashenvale and Lordaeron, which will lead to something new? Neat”. Apparently not because the players can’t handle that kind of change, no we must constantly be fighting over those two territories forever, then question why night elves suck and Forsaken are chaotic evil.
Forsaken currently need a new, non-plagued home that is dark, muggy, and won’t cause further decomposition if that’s consistently a problem. Theramore is abandoned, close to the heartland of the Horde, and not in constant threat of a random Alliance invasion. But please, let’s just stay in Lordaeron and continue the cycle of "Whaaa, humans are mean 
" and question earnestly why the Forsaken don’t get any new development.
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Id say a time skip is in order if they want to keep up with this destryoing cities nonesense, at least it cant be any worse than the travesty of burning teldrassil with all those civilians inside.
I think they quite enjoy tearing stuff down, maybe something about the need to prove themselves better than the old guard…
And I care nothing about that, especially if it just ends up as an excuse to continue the same old same old.
If they do a timeskip to resettle Lordaeron, then the only purpose is to later down the line is to either have the Alliance attack it again, which would be boring or the Forsaken to go on a grand tour of conquest again, which would be boring.
I wouldnt mind them setting up shop in theramore or scholomance and i also wouldnt like repeating SoL.
And while it’s true most of them have had minimal screentime and development, that shouldn’t be a disqualifier, because it was equally true of Calia before she suddenly burst out of nowhere.
Putting Forsaken in Theramore would just be rubbing salt on the wounds of Alliance players who are still mad about that, and it would probably lead to someone starting a “reclaim Theramore” campaign. So I don’t think it would have the effect of decreasing tension between Forsaken and humans.
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Human players on this forum will whine and cry for everything forever.
In game, Theramore has been an abandoned whole for years. If Dread Admiral Proudmoore, Lord of Theramore is the one to lead it afterwards the only one who would likely comment on it is Jaina and I highly doubt she’d mind if it was her zombie brother rebuilding it.
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So your solution to “Random Alliance Invasion” is to … just let them invade without any resistance whatsoever? Also, Dustwallow Marsh is a Humid Bog. Do you know what happens to rotting flesh in such an environment? Cold and damp is one thing, which they can get from the Northern EK climates pretty happily. Hot and Muggy on the other hand … well that should sure as hell deal with the Forsaken problem nicely. With the rapid decomposition of their bodies.
And as for “Change” … how about this? The Forsaken pull back to just north of the Forsaken Front in Tirisfal, using the natural hilly terrain and Fenris Isle/Keep to serve as their southern Bulwark. In exchange for any contesting of Hillsbrad, Gilneas, Arathi, and Southern SP … the Horde races take full control of the both Plaguelands (screw human resettlement). Then when combined with giving the Frostwolves total control over Alterac and some finagling of the Revantusk and Forest Trolls to get them full control of the Hinterlands + the once Scarlet Enclave to unify their peoples from North to South … BAM! We have a natural Border between Horde EK and Alliance EK using the Southern Hinterlands, Alterac, Mid SP mountain range.
The Wildhammer can then get the hell home to their actual ancestral lands, and rebuild the Wetlands, Highlands, and Grim Batol. Magni did say that the Old God Corruption of Azeroth is on the way out, so mayhaps its time they stop pretending Aerie Peak isn’t just them invading on the last true bastion of Forest Troll Territory in all of Azeroth?
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/shrug I honestly don’t know the climate of Duskwallow Marsh. Just know it’s darker and damper than Orgrimmar, close to the Horde heartland, and the only one who would actually care likely wouldn’t care especially if it’s led by Dread Admiral Proudmoore.
But yes, I suppose staying in Lordaeron and constantly fighting the Alliance is a better option. You are right. /scarasm
But back to the the constant whining of “ancestral homes”. You mention the Wildhammer going back to Grim Batol so the Raventusk can take the Hinterlands. Is there any reason for the Raventusk to not move into, what should be the empty Zul’aman? It’s not like they are allied to the Horde, and I’m certain they’ve been cleared out by this point because seriously they got rocked by the Horde and Alliance twice? So why is that never an option? Is it because it’s in Horde territory so therefore it can’t be given away? (I’m only slightly kidding, I’m certain you have proven plenty of times you care far more about cultural territory than anything else.)
The changes to the map you suggested could only realistically be feasible if they were mirrored in Kalimdor, and I’m sure the whining about that would be just as incredible but that seems to just be what people want. And that’s simply talking about the lore standpoint, from a gameplay one you can’t completely remove flight points in northern Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms unless you just want things to get stupider than they already are.
I won’t continue this argument further. My dreams will remain dreams and the the desires of this forum and Blizzard seems to be constant stupid war for constant stupid war sake, and then pretend its for story.