Death to the Tallfolk!
also um. 
I might not be fully… clothed. I think I forgot to change glamour plates lol.
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We need to take over the world !
Well now we’re just getting into rotations in general. I mean, rotations are rotations… they are named as such because it’s a repeated sequence. FF14 has more buttons to push so it’s inherently more complicated… but we’re talking about two of the most user friendly and easy to play tab target MMORPGs ever, so nether are particularly complex.
Oh and the only classes I’ve played in Shadowbringers so far are BLM and Ninja, so that’s worth noting… I heard they simplified a few classes, including SMN and like the OP said (which I agree with), tanks are very simple so using PLD isn’t a very good example either.
The bottom line for me is that the game has support and buffing classes. It’s not cut and dried roles, and that’s the appeal. I feel like I have more choice in how I want to do group content depending on my job choice.
EDIT: It’s also worth mentioning what they did to AST is super depressing lol
I really think you aren’t giving the jobs in FF14 enough credit and making the wow classes seem so much more impressive than they are. The WoW classes have priority systems, and playing at a reasonable level means following a priority system. You mention how summoners just have pets for different situations, but that’s also how it basically goes for warlocks. You can say things like “look at all the possible talent choices” and “oh wow, real different specs”, but in reality, pretty much everyone except the casual player is choosing the same talents and playing the same spec. You also overlook the fact that classes actually play and feel different. In Wow, everything has really become build spend, build spend, use big CD. You mention creating some special animation on the side in FF14, but those animations aren’t really all that different from building up combo points and then spending them. In both games, you use the single target one for single target, the aoe one for aoe. Just like Warlocks having a lot of pets, but in reality, people just use the pet that’s appropriate for a situation.
The bard for example has different rotations for each song, and you actually change what you are pressing depending on the song, and you can also very the song being played to an extent based on the situation. In WoW, that hunter is doing a much shorter rotation over and over with faw fewer buttons. Rotations for classes in WoW are barely above the DPS rotations of healers in FF14. It’s not like firemages have some versatile rotation; they all pretty much follow the same button order and will pyroblast when appropriate. Just consider the amount of positioning requirements with melee classes in FF14 where you need to be in front, behind, or from the side. There’s nothing like this in WoW.
Maybe PvP in WoW produces some versatility and creativity with combinations, but in raids, especially higher levels, people are basically trying to execute the same thing.
I started with WoW first, but I played FFXIV from Beta Phase 2, and I completely agree with your OP 
.
WoW, with all it’s faults always tries new things, sure, they are not always successful, but they still try it. FFXIV doesn’t try anything, and that’s why it gets uber boring after playing 2 expansions.
I loved the Bard in the last xpac! I haven’t played it yet in Shadowbringers. Is it still as fun?
No there are definitely cut and dried roles, healer, damage, and tank. When you queue you get slotted into those roles. Don’t get me wrong, I see what you’re saying, but wow has “party buffs” too. I mained Bard in Stormblood. I know Bard and Dancer are “support” classes. But they’re still DPS. Their function is to still DPS.
WoW has buffs and support abilities too. WoW in fact has hybrid classes, that FF14 doesnt have.
This is just simply not true. No class in FF14 has more than 32 abilities, so that it can all fit onto the cross action hot bar for controllers. And that is including Role actions, which are shared across DPS/Healer/Tank roles.
Here’s a concrete example from WoW’s Warlock class: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Warlock_abilities
I count 35-40 buttons depending on your talent selections.
Edit: sorry posted a little late, got distracted IRL
Stop comparing the games.
FF14 is a Final Fantasy game first and an MMO second.
WoW is an MMO first and an RPG second.
That’s it. You can’t compare two totally different games. A few of your points are totally incorrect nowadays. I have six month subs to both games and enjoy both games equally for very different reasons.
Not sure what the purpose of this post was. If someone enjoys the game, they will play it. End of discussion.
No, SMNs have 3 pets. One for AoE. One for Single target. They don’t use the third at all.
Warlocks have Imp, Voidwalker, Succubus, Felhunter, Felguard, Doomguard, Infernal— You’re oversimplifying things greatly.
Speed song, Note song, Bloodletter song. I know. Bard is an extremely fun class to play. The thing is, that Bard rotation will be the same for every single encounter they do, and there will never be any variation to it.
A Hunter can customize his toolkit with pets of varying types and abilities, customize his talent tree for whatever specific encounter he is doing, etcetera. On top of all that if that hunter doesn’t like the style of play he has 2 other specs he can pick from. And just look at the gameplay interaction for a Beastmaster hunter. The gameplay is directly based around his pet’s ability to buff and deal damage. Jobs in FF are all essentially one trick ponies. They have different ways to setup their gainers and spenders, but WoW finds different mechanical ways to deal damage. Shoot, look at how Disc priests are designed, or Holy Paladin, or the different nuances to Death Knight’s specs.
You’re the one oversimplifying things with how complicated you think FF14 is. I’ve played it too, a great deal in fact.
But there are classes that have much more support than others… and by design some classes don’t deal as much damage as others because of those support abilities. That could never fly in WoW where every DPS role must be capable of dealing the same damage for fear of being left out (though balance is another discussion…). In FF14 there are classes that are more supporty than others, and classes that are more damagey than others.
I believe you about the sheer amount of buttons, but I think it boils down to which buttons and how often they’re pressed. Core rotations in WoW are simpler for me to learn and follow so far, but I haven’t tried all the classes so I really can’t make broad statements.
Bard Playstyle is generally the same. You still have the different songs and the need to respond to procs. If you enjoyed it before, you would still enjoy it now. There’s always complaints about ‘the numbers’, but in terms of how it plays, it’s not too different.
Players in FF14 also know that some classes, like black mage, are more about doing DPS, whereas other classes, like dancer are more about providing support to the other players. Some tanks are seen as off-tanks, whereas others are main tanks. People decided the type of role they want to play, and that’s the job they go after.
That’s pretty disingenous. No one is really bringing a dancer for its high DPS and those range classes are known for playing support roles. Buffs in WoW are basically buttons people press. The support jobs in FF14 involve actually playing a rotation well enough that the amount you buff is actually affected. When a Mage time warps, they just press time warp. A Bard and Dancer responds to procs and their ability to do so impacts how much they actually buff other players. Any Dancer who thinks they can output the DPS of a black mage doesn’t understand how their job was designed.
Also, no, WoW doesn’t have hybrid classes, just because a priest has a DPS spec and a healing spec. Shadow Priests are people who want to DPS and they don’t really alternate much between healing and doing DPS, or even in the same fight, as healers will do in FF14. A resto druid isn’t someone who heals and DPS at the same time, they see themselves as playing a healing role and that’s the spec they play.
Also, it’s so strange you think FF14 isn’t so complicated because it can’t have more than 32 abilities, when they are all often being pressed in the same fight. There’s many talents, many of them passives, many of them never chosen, with people pretty much following the same format as everyone else. All of the complexity you mention is on paper, but not reality. It’s like saying "look at all the possible corruptions’ while ignoring that everyone is pretty much after the same 2-3. There’s a reason Blizzard is actually adding more to classes now and it’s because the reality of the rotations is overly simplistic due to all the pruning that’s been done.
I’m sorry in what world do all WoW DPS specs do the same damage?
Are we talking class or specs? I’ll assume you’re nitpicking by spec. If so then what do you call Holy Paladin and Disc Priest?
It’s not disingenuous. Read what I said. Dancer fills a DPS function by imparting a buff to other DPS jobs in party.
This is what is disingenuous. Picking a DPS and a Healer spec isnt the same thing as using an example of a hybrid spec.
It’s because I’m not going to sit here and breakdown each class for you in heavy detail as to what makes each class crunchy and intricate. I’m speaking in as broad strokes as I can for an audience that may be reading that doesn’t understand FF14. Just because you have more buttons to press to do damage doesn’t make the job any more complicated. You have less options and flexibility in combat in FF than you do in WoW.
Now I’m not going to sit here and give you a full breakdown. You either get it or you don’t, and I don’t feel committed to arguing with someone joining this late in the conversation that wants to be defensive about something that basically boils down to gamefeel.
Speed song, Note song, Bloodletter song. I know. Bard is an extremely fun class to play. The thing is, that Bard rotation will be the same for every single encounter they do, and there will never be any variation to it.
A Hunter can customize his toolkit with pets of varying types and abilities, customize his talent tree for whatever specific encounter he is doing, etcetera. On top of all that if that hunter doesn’t like the style of play he has 2 other specs he can pick from. And just look at the gameplay interaction for a Beastmaster hunter. The gameplay is directly based around his pet’s ability to buff and deal damage.
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Tell this to all the MM hunters, or the sub rogues, or all the various players who will tell you how the talents they choose and the rotations they follow are all basically the same. This variety you discuss only exists in paper in some imagined form of the game that frankly doens’t exist. Pets of varying type and situations? They have basically three and alternate based on the buff they want, that’s it, and it usually follows either the spec they are doing too.
You sound like a Blizzard developer that says “look at all these Azerite talents, so much choice” while pretending players aren’t all going after the exact same talents. You want to discuss Holy Paladin? Go find the Holy Palladin who not going after glimmer, go find the frost death knight that avoids Syndragosa.
The variety you imagine isn’t there in reality with WoW.
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3 specializations and 3 separate talent trees per class. Not even mentioning borrowed power. Argue all you want about what people use because it’s meta, it doesn’t mean the choices aren’t there. 
Ask me how many carbuncles I have. Now ask me how many carbuncles I use. Same sh*t, different game.
C’mon man, I mentioned balance lol… they’re closer than they are in FF I’ll put it that way
Okay concrete example. I am a Retribution Paladin. I go to play a raid with my guild. I spec my talents a certain way to maximize DPS uptime on the boss. Maybe I choose Inquisition, Blade of Justice, and Zeal.
Okay now I’m playing PVP. I want burst DPS. So I choose Crusade, Execution Sentence, and Hammer of Wrath. Oh I’m playing against Rogue Mage. Unbreakable Spirit,Vengeance Aura and Blessing of Sanctuary. Oh I’m playing against a Holy Paladin? Repentance.
Oh I’m tired of playing DPS? Let me swap over to Holy and heal.
Stop acting like WoW doesn’t provide you options that FF14 doesn’t inherently based on its design. If you pick Dragoon… you’re going to be doing the same thing every expac. Good luck leveling your alt jobs in roulette and PoTD.
As someone who plays both games, it’s in my interest to set things correct and the picture you are giving of WoW isn’t a picture that matches the player experience at all. Any WoW player, the ones here complaining about pruning, about all classes feeling the same, and seeking balance across specs, will all certainly realize very quickly how different it feels switching over to FF14 at top level. Ideas like weaponskills and abilities, things to use between the CD, doesn’t even really exist in WoW. That’s what all the changes related to putting things of the CD is about.
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There’s a reason they have the saying ‘cookie-cutter spec’ in WoW. If you are choosing your talents doing zero research and just on intuition, then I would guess you are quite casual and rather unique. I would argue that the more serious players are all generally following the same formula.
You switch from being a DPS to a Tank or a Healer? Just like how I switch on my ONE character from being a white mage to a machinist or a warrior, or even more. The biggest different you are limited to three specs, and one or two may be considered fairly bad, so the choice isn’t really there anyway. Consider BFA, where you lock in certain azerite traits, or in Legion, where you get legendaries that favour a certain spec, or in Shadowlands, where the choices will also enhance one spec above the others. The freedom you describe really only exists at a very casual level.
PvP is a different beast, where you are even given different talents because it is PvP. I already previously said that PvP requires you to adjust more and be more flexible, but that’s a reflection of PvP rather than either game, and PvP in FF14 is basically just there… well, to basically say they have it when no one should really be there for PvP. Raiding vs. Raiding though, that flexibility you describe becomes non-existent, especially at the mythic level. You aren’t going to be progressing on a boss and one week just go “oh hey, this week im the tank guys” unless you are again playing at a super casual level.
It’s also incredible you say the jobs play the same each expansion considering they change so much every 10 levels. Black mage isn’t the same at level 50 as it is at level 80, whereas a mage in WoW is seriously pretty much the same from level 30 to 120, and they don’t even gain anything new at a certain level. Other than borrowed power, the class is exactly the same from level 100-120.
Finally levellling alt jobs is just like levelling alt classes in WoW, and if someone wants to switch from playing a DPS to being a tank, they are far more likely to level up an entirely different class that simply switching spec. People are brought to raids as a shadow priest, or a BM hunter. They aren’t told “bring ur hunter and switch specs whenever you feel like it, or even change ur role when you feel like it.” You basically have to only PuG or be extremely casual to live in that kind of world.
Go apply to be a holy Palladin in a mythic raid, and tell them you refuse to do glimmer, or that occasionally, you will be the tank instead of the healer, when you feel like it. See how far that gets you with any serious guild.
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Whatever justification you need to enjoy playing the game, bud.
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