I read it. Stop being lazy or maybe you cant read well.
It’s not the same, because you level up a Paladin once. You level up each job in FF individually. You could gear your Holy spec as Ret, then swap over relatively easily.
Yes it is. The choice is still there for me to pick Ret, Holy, or Prot.
What are you even saying here? Flexibility in your talent selection, you dork. I swap between crusade and inquisition all the time. There are plenty of optional talent choices. Stop trying to intentionally misrepresent things lmao.
What the hell are you describing the leveling experience for? It’s not “incredible”. It’s a fact. Every job in FF plays functionally the same (each new expansion**), sans one or two abilities and tweaks they get per expansion. I’m saying right now, in WoW, there are different playstyles you can go for with each class. You’re being reductive and then expanding on empty contentions nobody is trying to debate. Stop.
Wh—what?? Dude. Stop. Not only is this pure conjecture, but you’re ignoring the fact that if a playstyle is getting stale, they have the option to switch specs. You’re misconstruing it to be “if they want to tank” they need to level an alt. You’re all over the place, I’m not debating you anymore.
Nobody is saying this, and you’re shoving words in my mouth. Nothing is stopping me from raiding as an Hpal, when I can get glimmer traits from azerite gear as a ret, and simply swap talents.
I’m done talking to you, literally every paragraph you write is framed in such hyperbole and radical examples, that you don’t give this conversation any more value than it had before you joined. Following your jerrymandering is exhausting and I refuse to continue to try to address your multitude of side bars and false comparisons.
My friend, what do you mean “true support classes”? Are you aware that those classes have extremely minor support capabilities that all basically boil down to “You guys do more damage for a while” or “healing is more effective”?
How is that a more “true support class” than Warlock, who can put down portals, offtank, create healthstones, etc
or shaman, who has all kinds of buffs with their totems, a golem that can snag aggro temporarily from the tank, and bloodlust? Nothing in FFXIV even comes close to that support utility…
Even healing from DPS classes are usually utterly useless or very mildly useful at best, meanwhile classes with heals in WoW can at least pop off a few heals and they’ll be USEFUL.
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Yeah. I almost brought this up, but they seem to be a new player to FF, I didn’t want to discourage them from whatever class they were playing.
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The sad irony is that because of the way the game is balanced, they had to gut the support that bard had, and it already had barely any. Before it had a few songs that did useful things, but now it’s just occasionally a small aoe damage buff, and all of the “songs” are just part of a rotation that only effects the bard.
The only cool utility bard still has is a fairly minor damage reduction it can throw on the tank, which to be fair is pretty cool I guess…but WoW has that also, and it’s stronger.
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They were talking about certain tanks being considered offtanks when they all have shirk… but why because Paladin has intervention? lol oK
To be fair, in previous expansions Paladin was the 'offtank" but it
s almost always based on who can do the most damage while main tanking, and SE didn’t like that existing at all, so they shoved tank swaps into like every fight after that expansion.
Warrior was just too good
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Do you honestly raid beyond an LFR level? Like, you accumulate gear based on your designated role. If all you ever play is qued content, then I can understand why you see things as flexible as you do.
I actually main a Palladin as well, and sure, sometimes I’ll tank, and for some content, DPS, but this idea that there isn’t one spec as is higher above the rest is false. Consider in Legion how you would advance on artifact over another, or how with azerite trait, you choose the spells based on the spec you want to use it for. Switching easily is more like switching to some downgraded version compared to someone that decided to focus on that spec.
That’s why when raiding, I’m the healer role, and the gear I focus on, is gear that will enhance my healing. Sure you can get gear for the other roles, but they aren’t equal unless a lot of work is put in to make them equal.
What are you even saying here? Flexibility in your talent selection, you dork. I swap between crusade and inquisition all the time. There are plenty of optional talent choices. Stop trying to intentionally misrepresent things lmao.
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Plenty of options? Go read some guide or videos or talk to people who actually play a class at a high level. I get you are a casual player who likely only ques for content, so you don’t have anyone to impress and perhaps ur friends don’t care either, but there’s a simple reason why people discuss cookie-cutter builds all the time. Do you use glimmer for healing? Do you think all corruptions are also equal choices?
That’s absolutely false and having played since the launch of ARR, it’s incredible to hear that there haven’t been any changes, considering you use to grab spells from other classes, or how different builds like white mage, summoner, or astrologer have changed over time. But the bigger issue is how you describe WoW, in a manner that even the developers don’t. You probably think convenants represent a ton of choice as well, and believe the idea of a certain convenant being better for a particular spec won’t be any kind of issue, just like it didn’t matter what legendaries or azerite armour you had. You could just switch gear and it was just as good in your mind. A Fire Mage switching to an arcane mage can be done whenever you please they are so equal in your imagined WoW.
ad hominem attack
Why are we discussing azerite traits? Yes I have proper talents and gear for each spec of Paladin.
Nice resume, it was nice talking to you, it’s never happening again. bye 
you’re rediculous
I’m sorry, healer “builds” have changed? No, you’re talking about jobs that got reworked, and none of them for the better. You’re forced into playing those in the specific way they want you to, now. You don’t have any choice at all.
AST had all of it’s fun buffs stripped away so they could homogenize it for balance, white mage had many of it’s actually impactful buttons stripped off and put in the “role” section, and summoner is now an extremely simplistic rotation that just has you hit a lot of buttons in order.
None of this can in any way be impacted by your choices as a player. I’m not even sure what your argument is here? Sure there will always be a best option, but in WoW you actually have the option…
Or are you talking about materia? Cuz you’re aware WoW has all of these options AND sockets, right?
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I am, but that’s all tied into rotations along with the damage dealing and it’s a big part of the class’s function and gameplay.
Totems are definitely cool, though I wish they were like they used to be and were something you plopped down at will rather than cooldowns. Still though, they’re only one button and it’s not really tied into any sort of rotation.
I mean yea, something you pass out ahead of time. Not anything you’d worry about during a fight aside from the people who would be using it.
Situational and a big cool down. Not something that goes into a rotation.
One button that everyone knows when and where to use with a big cooldown. Again, not something that adds much support during regular fights.
I’m gonna wrap this up though, I wasn’t looking to start an argument. We’ll all just have to agree to disagree. I think the classes in FF14 are better and offer more options for someone like me who likes gameplay that ties into directly supporting party members and not just melting enemies and pushing a support button occasionally. G’night all~
If what you said were true, you would expect elemental and enhancement shamans to all be rejoicing with how popular they are! In reality, they are the third least popular class and crying for buffs. Bloodlust, wow, the same ability that can be given by other classes. The ability to lay down portals from Warlocks, I’ll give you, but you place warlocks on a higher pedestal than most warlocks would! They are the four least popular class.
I get it, you FF14 players came here and you look at things in amazement, but in truth the flowers don’t smell as sweet as your imagine. No one is bringing a shadow priest because they can do the occasional heal. You describe classes with more glowing eyes than actual wow players.
Again, the difference is that in WoW we actually have that option. Name support from non-healers in FFXIV that does anything as interesting as those support options I listed, or those in WoW in general? It’s all Damage up, heal up, shield, damage taken down.
FFXIV isn’t a game about your class or your character, it’s a game about the fight itself.
You’re sitting here arguing “Na uh, they’re underpowered!”. Is this seriously your argument? You’re now comparing relative powerlevel within one game to power-level within another to justify that WoW in fact actually DOESN’T have more types of support?
You’re aware FFXIV isn’t the bastion of balance you seem to be implying it is right now?
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I get it, ur jaded by FF14 so you see all the negative and see WoW as providing you all these options that weren’t available in FF14. It’s only a superficial option, the same one blizzard developers use when they say there are so many azerite choices, so many corruption choices, and how convenants will also provide so many options. If that were as true as you believe, #pulltheripcord wouldn’t be a thing and people would be agreeing with you. In reality, the biggest objection is how all this possible choice is smoke and mirrors and people consistently follow a certain build. If all you do is qued content, sure, do whatever you want, but the minute you need to play with non-friends, you’ll quickly discover that all this choice comes down to needing to pick the right things and play the right build. As the other poster mentioned, you are describing healthstones and bloodlust in a manner that a veteran wow player just doesn’t perceive like you do. People choose DPS based on how much damage they bring, either in terms of single-target or AOE, and no one is seriously going “oh man, get a warlock, need those stones! Sure, they don’t mind them, but the excitement for these things is far less than the enthusiams you express”
At the end of the day, you’re a veteran FF14, focused on the flaws, and frustrated with them enough to come here and make WoW seem like the greatest thing since slice bread. In many ways, us veteran wow players are like you in reverse. You go “omg, as a Rogue, I have three options”, while WoW players go “dude, sub rogue sucks”. You see a ton of choice, we look and go “no, don’t pick that, it sucks”, and in the end, all the choice you see, we just see talent rows where most of the time there’s only one realistic option, not 3.
Some of the things you mention honestly produce the reaction of “really? That impresses you?” Saying they are interesting is kinda subjective. Like, you may be impressed how disc priests heal via damage, whereas many could say “nah, disc priest kinda sucks.” People here generally don’t even considered utility too much and focus far more on what the parsing numbers show. It’s cool to be new, it all looks shiny and interesting, but I wonder if you’ll feel the same after a couple years.
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#pulltheripcord is about the fact that these skills are tied to covenants specifically, tying story choices to gameplay in a direct way is unhealthy to the game experience…
It has nothing to do with the relative power or options to pick between the skills themselves. …
Also I haven’t played FFXIV in months now. I’m not really “frustrated” with it at all, I’m perfectly happy here. I’ve obviously been playing wow long enough to grind a 120, unlock vulpera, then get that to 120 also at bare minimum…
It’s not about being impressed. You’re applying far more importance on these things than I implied myself.
The fact isn’t that I’m “impressed” by these things, it’s that based on the way FFXIV works they would NEVER add these things, because they’d break that game, it’s a fundamental game design difference.
FFXIV has spent it’s last 2 expansions trying to homogenize it’s classes for balance purposes, imagine if some of these skill concepts in WoW were applied to FFXIV? I’d be chaos. They can’t even balance what they have, and what they have is extremely simple.
I could never get into FFXIV because the GCD is wayyy too long and the races are super boring. They’re all humans of different sizes with different ears.
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This is something lots of new players say, and something that isn’t entirely accurate to the feel of the rotations. As you get higher level, you get a lot of skills to weave in-between globals, way more than in WoW. You’ll often be pressing more buttons on average than you do in WoW once you have your full skillset, there’s way less downtime.
Certain classes also speed-buff themselves to the level that their GCD is close to what it is in WoW.
No Dude, it has everything to do with that. It’s why people are saying they want it to be cosmetic only. Here’s a quote to give you an example:
People are upset their convenant choice will be based on how it lets them play their class, and how they will need to base that choice on whichever makes them the most powerful in a given area.
You got to 120 and unlucked vulpera, grats, but many people have been playing for years and multiple expansions. They have already lived through all these choices being no real choice and instead having to go with the option that is the one designated best for their class or given spec. I could link you a whole bunch of youtube videos saying the same. It’s why when you champion all this choice and abilities, it leaves many veteran players scratching their head. I can see what you mean about lack of choice when playing a Bard, but calling a warlock the ultimate support class with tons of versatility that can also tank occasionally is a description that many warlocks wouldn’t even support. In reality, all warlocks beyond the LFR level will 80% be the same spec, with the same talent builts, going after the same sets of gear, all choosing the same covenant. This is also a game where parses are every present and the biggest thing people are gonna care about are the numbers, not the fact you brought a portal.
Correct, that’s literally what I said, thanks.
Covenants SHOULD in fact be “cosmetic”, in the sense that skills shouldn’t be tied to them. You shouldn’t be forced to pick a covenant you like and be locked into a skill you don’t or vise-versa, that’s stupid.
Edit: Also it’s not like I didn’t play WoW AT ALL before FFXIV, I played WoW on release up to the end of TBC and basically quit until current day, my dog. That was just so long ago it didn’t really effect my playing of FFXIV.
I was never a “Refugee” there, if that makes sense? I went and played that because I wanted to right when it came out, and eventually left due to all of the problems.
Everything past TBC was in fact new to me, and I like the majority of it.
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