Southshore Rebuilt

Lore Story Forum
102

So there are not any living elements in “New Lordaeron.” Good to know.

Thats also incredibly reductive of the Gathering. When the living relatives were asked if they wished to see their undead relatives, most flat out rejected the opportunity. Even of those who did show up not all were happy, not even briefly. Some were flat out rejected by their families out of sorrow, anger, disgust, or other emotions. There were the few who were genuinely accepted.

You keep arguing for this imagined community that is simply tone deaf to these individual communities. The Forsaken players, largely, do not want to see a tamped down, bland, and devoid expression of what they’re playing sprinkled around Lordaeron. They want to see what makes the Forsaken… Forsaken, what makes the characters interesting to them. They want their cooky southern gothic Frankenstein monsters doing cooky southern gothic Frankenstein shenanigans. Twisting someone’s head around three times and the right and twice to the left to tighten it back on jusssst right, ‘sun bathing’ with one of those three panel mirrors in a dreary overcast sky and thick fog, arguing if cyanide, arsenic, or asbestos tastes better in their stew, flaying a Scarlet or Alliance ‘reclaimer’ (HMP) up on a tree to make a Nightlord blush.

Poor Worgen fans only just got their city back 12 years later and even then they had to watch the Forsaken blight bomb their city again, get a silly top hat and monocle transmog, and lose their Worgen leader all in the same day. They want to feel like Worgen again. They want the fang and claw Bloodfang Pack, to stalk the night, to struggle with their curse. This was suppose to be one of the Alliance’s ‘beast’ races, their opportunity to play a werewolf and all that came with it. They’ve been denied their Victorian Gothic and almost Faustian horrors.

Thats not even to begin on the bland Wonder bread that are the remaining Lordearon and Stormwind humans. Taking Gilneas out of the equation, all thats left for significant human culture and depth is Kul’tiras, and I suppose Arathi in the future (but even they don’t have a set identity). Are we going to throw Disney world in with our two horror factions?

We can exemplify the positive traits among each of these peoples without forcing this would be bland homogenized wafer for the sake of… what? Faux peace and respect? Making the Scarlets go away? Dive into the peoples individually and you can create respect and killing Scarlets out of that. Your peace at whatever cost doesn’t have to mean forced kindness. Peace may be exemplified with tension, peace may exist with animosity, peace may exist without cohesion.

There is no winning for everyone, but there is winning in the areas that matter most for the people who value it and thats investing in our chosen fantasies and the core identities of the races/nations we primarily play.

Ian said 4 new/updated zones. It was a little off handed, albeit, but that has been the major trend the past couple and going into this next expansion. We could probably go so far as to call that standard. So as of now, that is all were getting as far as major zone updates and remakes go.

8 Likes
103

I think I need to clarify. We have the Argent Brotherhood who are Light extremists within the Argent Crusade who took Tyr’s Hand from the Risen. I would love to see the surviving Risen aka former Scarlet Crusaders join the Forsaken and through them we get Paladin Forsaken not through Tyr’s actions.

I would want New Lordaeron to have severe conflict between the living and the dead. As seen with the notes from the Scarlet Brotherhood. These guys hated the Forsaken, but felt impotent on what Anduin did so they made up fiction to justify it, but maybe some nuggets of truth. Maybe they do have Calia’s daughter, but raised her as a boy.

I want to see the living and the undead having moments of unity and also rejection. The Worgen not wanting to meet their Forsaken kin raised during the Cataclysm in the Stillpine storyline.

I want Ivar to be the resistance leader stopping Queen Tess Greymane’s attempts to make peace with the Forsaken attacking Lady Calia’s entourage. The Forsaken seeing this as proof that they cannot trust the living.

I want a new battle for Andorhal. A return of the Scourge remnants and the three factions having an epic battle, but all sides learning that they cannot rule over Lordaeron alone. A tentative peace which allows the Forsaken to recruit the Scholomance necromancers and the remnants of the Scourge.

I want Sky Admiral Rogers fighting Magistrate Maleb and any Hillsbrad citizen willing to give the Forsaken a chance at Tarren Mill. Saying that the undead are monsters and pointing at the graves of her family killed by them. Have warden Stillwater who somehow is still active be held accountable. A chance for nuance on all sides.

The living will continue to have children and propagate in the regions they settle. Humans rebound time and again from near extinction. I want the Forsaken to feel pressured and scared rightfully of the day when the living outnumber the undead. What would that mean for them? Divisions and debate. Rejection and acceptance. Tolerance and detente.

I think you imagine a kumbaya moment. I don’t. I want lingering conflict laced in the overarching narrative of Midnight.

105

No, let’s not let Blizzard get away with such an overtly shameful retcon when every Horde player who ever played through Hillsbrad personally put an end to him. We don’t need that slap-in-the-face walking around.

You keep saying this, so I have to ask. You are aware… that Blizzard doesn’t do “population numbers,” right? Like, your idea that there won’t be any Forsaken left in 5 years is a fabrication that only you seem to entertain, despite the fact that Blizzard has repeatedly said in the past on this very subject, that “There will always be more Orcs.”

That storyline was crafted specifically for Sylvanas to have a new motivation after Arthas bit it up on Icecrown, and Blizzard has since admitted it gave them more headaches than wins, having to constantly explain how Sylvanas wasn’t breaking her own rule about raising the undead all throughout Cataclysm, until they decided she’d throw out that last rule as part of her new role as the Big Bad Villain.

I won’t speak for the Forsaken player community, but your idea of dragging that plot out of it’s grave is just as bad, if not worse than the Valkyr-Necromancy Plot that was introduced to solve it. There will always be enough Forsaken to be a power unto themselves, and there needn’t be any worry about their future, since Calia’s little sojourn into Maldraxxus was meant to explain to Forsaken players that she’s totally one of them, (even though she’s not), and that Necromancy and Undeath are as natural to the universe as all the walking and talking trees in Kaldorei lands.

The rest of your ideas have merit, but that one, no. That one can stay in the Shadowlands where it belongs.

3 Likes
106

I think Southshore could be a satisfying area to sort of put the Alliance Lordaeron issue to rest finally. It rebuilt a larger town or city maybe even flying the old banners would be nice. Have it look and feel like the last surviving piece of Lordaeron in the Alliance.

I would also put Weldon Barov there somewhere, given his family at least according to those Scholomance questlines owned Southshore.

3 Likes
107

They already gave us an impression the Forsaken barely have the forces to control the lands they have. Remember the Forsaken heritage quest? The reason the champion had to fight to take Fenris Isle. One of the reasons the Forsaken didn’t just want to go in full force was they couldn’t spare to lose any more people.

warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Our_Enemies_Abound

The Forsaken lost so many during the Fourth War that they could barely hold the Lordaeron and didn’t for much of the war. It was only after the war did they retake it and only because the Alliance allowed it and in turn Calia Menethil worked with the Desolate Council to help retake Gilneas with the Alliance forces.

The impression from the quest lines it appears the Forsaken have been severely depleted and without the Valkyr they wont be replaced their losses from attrition and war. The humans/worgens can replenish their numbers and have consistently rebounded each war. One of the comments Turalyon made at the end of BFA that would be his goal and 5 years later the Alliance is once again rebuilt and the Horde is still struggling. Should give you an idea about the ability for humans to get it on if you will. Think of how the baby boomers came about after WW2 after every great war humanity whether in real life or in games always are able to replenish themselves quite quickly.

I think humans and goblins are the only two races that appear to be able to rebound as quickly and following them orcs, pandaren and trolls. Elves/undead/tauren/etc don’t easily rebound.

108

Holy mother of headcanon.

109

We are not the feel good punching bag of self entitled alliance players. Lordaeron is not yours anymore.

110

Tbh bring back faction conflict generally, give us a Cold War if we must steer clear of actual war, this hand-holding nonsense is grating and frustrating.

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111

You just know even getting back Stromgarde and Gilneas was not enough for the MHPs

112

I keep telling the lordaeron fanatics this, but every other month it seems the need for the alliance to take lordaeron crops up

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113

The faction cold war culminated in stupidity like the ICC airship fight so no, that, too, can stay dead

Forsaken popularion recovery should always have been about freeing scourge into becoming mindful undead after Wrath and that it wasn’t so mostly comes down to the writers’ room being full of people who were too dumb to understand Metzen’s insistence that no the forsaken weren’t meant to be playable scourge.

1 Like
114

I’ve long thought of splitting Hillsbrad into Horde-Alliance held areas north-south along the main road. And also having the Horde rebuild Strahdbad and Alterac as Forsaken/Frostwolf towns.

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115

If it’s Gilnean, IE Worgen I’m game.

But Stormwind and her puppets can stay on their side of Thoradin’s Wall where they belong. There’s plenty of human settlements in the EK already they’re just Argent. They’ve had approximately 0 beef with the Forsaken because turns out the undead are actually quite reasonable when you don’t treat them like walking diseases to be bleach cleaned.

So Worgen yay. Human boo.

116

I so desperately want more Frostwolf Forsaken cooperation.

Out’ve nowhere in Cata they decided “I helped pave a road with literal genocide” Drek’Thar was too good for the Forsaken.

When some of the OG AV bosses were Forsaken, and wing commander Jester still is.

I still think they should be the resident Orc presence in the EK. With Forest Trolls led by the Revantusk with the backing of the Zandalari being the main third power in otheewise knife eared, knife fingered E Horde arrangement…

3 Likes
117

No Sylvanas had the right idea. We need dem baby angels to raise more undead.

118

Man Blue is not really my color but I gotta say;

Seriously though. Worgen or bust. None of this Gilnean human crap. Werewolves with cool Victorian gothic architecture.

The Drust Witches can come too. Combine that with the Dracula themed San’Layn and we officially have the conditions set for that most gruesome and foreboding of events;

119

Maybe it’s the next place we fight the Scarlets before obtaining it for players.

I wonder if Calia was sent by the Light not to cause the extinction of the Forsaken, but to use her twisted sense of right and wrong to prevent the Forsaken from developing the means to increase the population. She is meant to just stand in the way.

120

Why is it that it’s always Level 10 Belfs who have the absolute worst takes on everything?

1 Like
121

Most are from the EU and they came over here on a starter account because reasons. At least that is how it is with Erevien.

122

We are always right get used to it.