yeah, more TM vs SS PvP fights I hope…lol Those were fun.
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How is Southshore back? The Blight would have seeped into the soil, potentially tainting sources of fresh water and run off into the water devastating the marine life.
This is a port town that you can’t go fishing in, grow crops and drinking water may have risks.
Southshore’s only value is it’s symbolic value.
A mission table in BFA stated Raleigh the Devout took a group of paladins to cleanse the blight and were relatively successful. According to the Exploring Azeroth series, the Alliance control Southshore and are cleaning up the remaining pockets of blight and threats.
How actually? No clue. Thinking Blizzard forgot they blighted it for 100 years into the future and realized it was a mistake having this Horde exclusive contested zone that was a beloved zone prior to Cata when they attempted to balance the questing options for the two factions.
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this always bugged me- Lordaeron/The Forsaken clearly had/has a large navy, yet NOWHERE do they have a port city in-game. Even Southshore (which the Forsaken don’t even control anymore) only has a couple of docks. Maybe it’s in the area north of Stratholme?..
and this bugs me even worse- in spite of how insipid the BFA war was, locking so much of it’s non- Zadnalar and Kul Tiras based events behind the Mission Tables was an exercise in pure unadulterated laziness. “Warfronts and Island Expeditions, THAT’S gonna be what the game needs! Anything would wastes of time that will suck!”
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“Oh, so that’s where all the blight-clearing equipment we were trying to bring to the siege of Lordaeron went!”
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I feel like the problem with holding to this narrative is Forsaken players are going to have a harder and harder time using it when more recent history has shown fewer reasons for it. The more expacs we get like DF the more we inch away from causes to be openly hostile between Undead and living.
Thats a narrative choice though isn’t it? The writers can choose to re-diverge back to this original narrative.
DF might have given us closer relations between the two factions but it doesn’t change the Forsaken have been distrusted since before Classic and have, honestly, only given the world more reason to distrust them. The general unease with the Forsaken in Classic is a great start, even played out as neutral with the Horde as opposed to friendly. BC helped mend relationships as they helped with the elves, only to destroy that trust by strong arming them into the Northrend campaign. Not to mention the Wrathgate which put UC under Kor’kron occupation. Varian was ready to retake the city for the Alliance. Cata, albeit on the orders of Garrosh, gave us Gilneas and Hillsbrad. WPL seems to be a solely Forsaken plan, but doesnt change the fact Sylvanas kidnapped Koltra (although given the circumstances I suppose she was technically allowed to). They were taking and enslaving Pandaren when the Alliance meets them in MoP. The Ebon Blade have attacked the Forsaken twice (1.5 if you don’t really count Arathi). Theres the whole Stormhiem questline that flows into BFA.
And thats just the broad overview and summation of the Forsaken’s less than trustworthy deeds. Thats one expansion against seven characterizes them as underhanded, seedy, up to no good, violent, distrustful.
Like I said,
And thats not to say there can’t be cooperation or coordination between the Forsaken and the living, or the Alliance. We’re not looking to take over the world or eradicate every inch of humanity throughout whats left Lordearon. The Argents still exist don’t need to be destroyed (though I have my own gripes about their control of EPL being a barrier to the Forsaken and Blood Elves), the Gilneas/Lordearon border can be diplomatically addressed, Southshore can be given an order of protection/promise we wont blow it up again, and they can discuss the Lordearon/Arathi border. These are all important diplomatic questions that need to be answered with cooperation. However, as stated elsewhere the Forsaken need to showcase what the Forsaken are at their core in a world that shouldn’t trust them and actively encroaches on their borders, questioning their right to exist.
A very speak softly and carry a big stick diplomacy
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And the thing is if given the time and resources, Im sure they could have actually been a very well received aspect of the game. Every mission table quest could have been an expedition or warfront. If BFA was actually a battle for Azeroth and not 4 expansions crammed into one (and redid the general atrocious writing) they could have given us 2 warfronts and 5 expeditions a patch that kept up with the narrative.
Give me a PvP option for Warfronts too. JFC, the opportunity was right there!
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I agree. It’s a pretty massive oversight.
The area north of Stratholme wouldn’t make a great deal of sense, as Stratholme itself is Argent territory, and that area’s a fair way from Forsaken lands. But you never know, maybe! I’d just be glad for something to get added.
Sure, but there’s also implied distrust in the fact that the Forsaken are giving their aid to the Gilneans in the reclamation of their Kingdom, and to the Kaldorei at Bel’ameth, but their heritage questline had their backs against the wall fighting the Scarlet Crusade, and they received no aid from anyone.
Also this ^^^
What are you talking about? The Horde got several shining moments in BC/CATA and during BFA. The Horde may have lost the war, but they got many celebratory moments throughout wow’s history.
You don’t care. That doesn’t mean Night Elf players didn’t care or that Alliance players were not upset regarding the Burning of Teldrassil. Midnight will be the shining moment for the Thalassian elves and I’m sure Blood Elves will have their moment in the sun and let’s be real the Blood Elves got one of the best heritage armor quest lines, Shadowlands conclusion quest lines, and soon to be Midnight expansion where Silvermoon will be updated to it’s full glory. Stop being so salty and enjoy the game!
How? A wizard did it. In all seriousness the Horde and the Forsaken especially were villain batted during Cata with the concentration camp and the evils done in Silverpine and Southshore. The Alliance retook Southshore and much of Southern Hillsbrad. It makes sense that in Midnight the living humans of Southshore/Hillsbrad get to rebuild and the Forsaken be okay with it. The lands of Lordaeron are not exclusively theirs only Lordaeron city and only because the Alliance allows it. The conclusion of the war made it clear that a New Lordaeron is being reborn and one that has both elements of the living and the dead.
Midnight will likely show a cleansed Plaguelands and a renewed Lordaeron likely a mix capital for everyone to share like Gilneas City and Amirdrassil. It’s yet to be determined, but if the Horde can walk free after what they did at Teldrassil and Hillsbrad. Count yourselves lucky that all that is being asked is a shared Lordaeron especially for what the Forsaken have been guilty of.
Oh yeah I agree with all that.
I can still see reasons for mistrust. I am more talking about open hostilities between Forsaken and others, which you covered in your reply about there still being cooperation or coordination.
I just don’t want non-Forsaken players to feel they are forced to view Forsaken as Scourge and I don’t want Forsaken players to feel they are forced to view themselves as basically Scourge. While I dont mind the element of “can we trust these guys?” to always be looming, I think a lack of diplomacy makes that not even a question that could be asked.
In closing, I would like to see better-written reasons for the undead/living races to have the relations they do and not this weird self-fulfilling prophesy of “X kills Y because Y kills X because X kills Y because Y kills X” and so on and so on.
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In order to have that the living need to see distinction between the undead of Lordaeron and the Scourge of Lordaeron. One of the best ways to show that is to let the living who choose not to seek revenge against the Forsaken for their many, many crimes under Sylvanas to work with the living wherever possible. Not just in Gilneas, but in Hillsbrad and Southshore. The living will resettle and the best marketing the undead of Lordaeron have that they are different is to allow them. Work with their families who are alive and show they want to be a part of their lives.
Southshore being rebuilt is a good thing. It shows the Forsaken have moved beyond the reasons they were rejected by the Frostwolves leader, Drek’thar, that they are indeed a different type of undead. They’ve learned to be good and will work with the living who settle Gilneas/Silverpine/Southern Lordaeron and the recovering Eastwald and help transition these areas as a hybrid of living/undead settlements. Best PR is cooperation and coordination with former enemies and showing good faith to their brethren.
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Nothing to enjoy. Blood elves get the middle finger just like in TBC and our next redemption will come Form Alleria.mark my words.
Honestly how good would it be if we just had better inter-race-relations lore in general?
I’m still interested in how the High Elves and Void Elves see each other. I mean one group was exiled for not using dark magic and another was exiled for going TOO far. And now they’re on the same side. But they should be ideological opposites… right? That’d be fun to see reflected in game.
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What elements of the living exist within “New Lordaeron?” Calia? She might as well be alive given how well she fits in. Its still just Lordaeron, nothing has changed about it except for the amount of blight which occupies it. The Argents are still where the Argents are at, Gilneas only got back Shadowfang Keep and Pyrewood (maybe Ambermill) which just brings it back to the pre-WC3 borders, the Forsaken are where the Forsaken are at, and the Scarlets are still Scarletting. The Forsaken are just down one whiplashed written character at the end of the day.
Midnight is only guaranteed to show what Quel’thalas looks like now. Probably IoQD, Eversong, Ghostlands, and a yet to be named zone, but leading theories state Zul’Aman. Undercity has already been reclaimed, minus the “under” part, but again nowhere does it show any indication of being anything but a Forsaken city. Other members of the Horde may be there, as they were previously, but folks outside of that is unlikely
Relax King Chin. You’re acting like we personally wrote the story in a self loathing despair and now need to suffer for our inability to write cohesive narratives. All I have been advocating for, as well as other Forsaken fans, is to revert back to our chosen fantasy when we picked the hunched over deaders so many years ago - an outcast people distrusted by those outside of them who are attempting to rationalize the severe trauma they went through.
If it were really up to me, or any of us for that matter, I’d have poofed Teldrassil (which is being restored) back to being green with all the new high res assets Amirdrassil got, unblighted Southshore years ago and bring back the classic Hillsbrad tug of war, reclaimed Gilneas early on and made a DMZ between the Greymane Wall and a Forsaken Shadowfang keep and new bulwark with puppy spray bottles, and brought up more minor characters into the limelight.
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I think we found the official forum account of Vardoc. Arguments are the same.
The High Elves of Stormwind are walking side by side with the Void Elves and their reasons for exile is based on a common principle of what they are willing to do to protect their peoples and what they wouldn’t. Fel isn’t the same as Void magics, but with Alleria Windrunner leading the Void Elves it appears that the High Elves are quite friendly to their Void kin.
The blood elves do compromise and willing to bend morality for the sake of survival and reclaiming lost power. We never suffered addiction withdrawl and conquered what the scourge took from us back. The magisters and the burning crystals are the future of the kingdom and the Forsaken and Nightborne are the only allies we need.
I actually think there’s potential for a new status quo where the undead aren’t whiplashed. They can be integrated like how the Gathering showed living humans meeting their families in Arathi and the Forsaken actually got along and for a brief moment felt happiness on all sides. Literally lasted a few hours, but that’s something we should be looking as a template on how a rebuilt Gilneas/Southshore/Eastwald would work.
Humans/Worgen/Undead living in integrated communities, trading with each other and being at best respectful to each other with all sides wanting the Scarlets to go AWAY.
They mentioned the zones of northern Eastern Kingdoms that includes everything North of the Thandol Span. Obviously the focal point will be Quel’thelas, but I’m sure it will be much of the old zones around Lordaeron/Arathi Highlands/Gilneas. Wouldn’t make sense to have at the end of Shadowlands the Forsaken retake Lordaeron City, then recently have Gilneas be under new leadership and retaking the city with Forsaken help. Same with Exploring Azeroth book mentioning the rebuilding of Southshore.
I think regardless of the events of Teldrassil and what happened back in Cataclysm it’s been a long time coming for all sides to meet together and finally resolve this issue for once and for all. Not just the events of BFA but what we saw in DF. I want there to be peace. However possible… I cant honestly imagine it being worse than what I described or better. There’s only two options - reconciliation with a world revamp or status quo… Neither will be accepted by all the people.
I think Forsaken and Worgen can be an odd pair, but one that works if they play up their dark natures and show them as doing anything necessary to save the continent of Lordaeron from the Void Lords.
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