So I agree with basically everything that has to do with #NoChanges.
I like no flying, and having to group up, and the extra teamwork that goes into every little detail of things. I played a little bit of Vanilla and found that I love how abilities and talent trees work, professions and all that jazz, but I think there should be a smidge of change. No new spells, nothing NEW added to the game (or removed for that matter) but I think we can change some of the stats around. I am not saying I want the game to be easier, because the difficulty is perhaps the best part, and what makes everything so rewarding, but I do believe that all classes and āspecsā should be viable, and an adjustment to the numbers on things would help make pieces of the game more meaningful.
I understand that is a change, obviously, but I am all for #NoChanges when it comes to functionality, I just want a little change when it comes to certain items/spells/classes not being worthwhile to invest in.
All classes and specs are viable. They arenāt all viable for all aspects of the game, but that was as intended. If you want to be able to do pvp, 5 mans, raids, and farming as every spec, BfA is right over there. The closest thing vanilla had to a dead tree was ret, and I think everyone will agree that vanilla was up to its ears in retadins.
and no, you arent getting class rebalancing because you are a failure at your class and you need a superficial boost to your ego.
nobody gives two cents if it isnt their class on the bottom, balanced or not. they would be completely fine if it was every other class that was in the gutter but the moment their mains arent on top, they scream and cry for rebalancing. has nothing to do with being FAIR.
not a single person comes and complains when a class they DONT play, is nerfed/changed. not.a.single.person. balancing in classic, is just another word for special treatment.
Blizzard made all classes capable of topping the dps meter in WotLK. They also cut way back on class synergy and utility so that pure dps classes wouldnāt be shafted by the rebalancing. What was left was a bunch of specs that all felt the same.
Vanilla class identity is core to the gameplay and should never be touched.
Itās impossible. For example, how do you make prot pallies raid viable without adding new abilities and talents? You canāt fix a vanilla spec with % buffs like you can in retail.
hence class identity. which has long since been throw into the dumpster in retail.
every class has strong points and weak points, in vanilla.
in retail, every class has been homogenized and has zero identity.
for example; in retail, bm hunters are now exactly like mm hunters. with a lot less dps. their pet (hence BEAST master) has been turned into an AI with nothing to offer, unlike vanilla. in vanilla, bm were two different people/a group unit and were independent from each other.
bm functioned as a whole, while mm functioned as a single unit.
bm gave double dps, compared to mm. as long as their pet remained active.
just to add personal experiences; bm was more sought for raids because of the above. sure, it was hard to keep them up under certain situations. i have had healers willing to throw my pet heals during their down time, to keep that extra party damage going.
The first part I agree with. I donāt agree with reporting the guy. Heās simply expressing his opinion.
The thing is, whether you or I agree with his opinion or not, that the time is way past to influence J. Allen Brack and Ion Hazzikostas that this project should involve massive class/spec overhauls. Weāre in the last 6-7 months, the home stretch. Thatās cleanup time.
People like the OP can post their dreams, but at this point if the Classic team decided to fiddle with balancing the classes, then the whole project would be delayed, possibly by a lot. Itās not happening.
Yep. Rock, paper, scissors. Itās a basic RPG concept. There is always a counter exactly because of this. Itās a contributing factor to what made vanilla WoW.
#NoChange is not a stubborn refusal to accept lifeās improvements. Itās a desire to experience again what many consider the greatest game they ever played. A situation every gamer should be able to relate to, whether itās your particualar cup of tea or not.
Nobody is ever going to bring up flying, LFR, or anything that would destroy what Vanilla is. That is gross hyperbole spread by the various ā#NoChangeā groups.
What we want instead is stuff like class/talent changes, QoL changes to make some classes more interesting play, bringing the non-homogenized Melee Hunter back, as well as take Vanilla into direction it originally should have gone, should no expansions have happened.
So stuff like:
QoL changes: make some classes more interesting to play. Doesnāt have to be a radical DPS change, just add/change like 1-2 abilities and call it a day. Melee Hunters could get Lacerate and improved Mongoose Bite(so it can be used regardless of if your target dodged, maybe identical to itās WotLK variant)
Talent changes: This is so the original fantasy of 16/17/17 or 25/26 hybrid trees can be accomplished. Trees should be designed so those kind of alternatives exist for all classes and specs and provide interesting alternatives to existing mono builds.
Also thereās some questionable talent design like many talents which do not improve your DPS at all, like 1.12.1 Survival, and some classes have pretty terrible 31pt/21 talents. So bringing other classes up to par with some of the more interesting classes like Fury and Combat would be a nice change.
More RPG mechanics. Making intellect more appealing for melee users, strength more appealing for casters, reworking thrown and making more race-specific class abilities for each classes, even adding sub-specs for existing specs would be nice. What about thrown combat Rogues, tank enhancement Shamans, or Dual-Wielding ret Paladins.
If Vanilla proves succesful(doubt it, most nochangers seem to want reset rather than new content) then new areas, BGās, mechanics are of course possible, but I doubt it.
PvP balance. This is obviously big to me, making unviable PvP specs like Fury Warriors more viable in PvP, but without diluting their class fantasy. Since Classic will forever be static 1.12.1 thereās no harm in revisiting some specs that are performing poorly in PvE/PvP and improving their viability.
Does it really sound so weird, that some people prefer the old gameplay style of Vanilla, and I would rather have more content that either makes existing Vanilla more enjoyable to play, or followās Classic Vanillaās original design intentions and limitations, just like original Vanilla received support constantly throughout itās lifespan.
Design-wise, while TBC improved on many flaws Vanilla had, but itās setting and design direction was still very different from Vanilla, such as inlcusion of flying or increasing the number of talents to 41 instead of rebalancing and filling the existing ones, so I would never even concider playing any expac after Vanilla.
Vanilla still had more interesting core mechanics, and while this will not be here for launch, Hunters were melee for large part of Vanilla, so making Melee Hunters back instead of the homogenized 1.12.1 ranged Survival that defined later expansions, would be a perfect Vanilla change.
This is not true. Like, crazily untrue. I mained a hunter in Vanilla through AQ, and for a while in BC. BM did not become a remotely viable raiding spec until mid-late BC when they added the pet ability that reduced AOE damage by 50% and the change that turned Mend Pet into a HoT instead of a channeled heal. Even if you could have kept your pet up, which you couldnāt have, but even if you could have, your dps wouldnāt have been much, if any higher, than 5/33/13 or 0/21/30 since constant pet management (calling back for every aoe, calling back and moving for every boss reposition, and healing after every unavoidable aoe) would drastically cut into your own up time. BM was a great spec for soloing and pvp, but it wasnāt a PvE spec.
This all boiled down to two issues.
Pets did not show readily on raid frames for other people to heal.
There was not code in place to intelligently keep pets on the backs of mobs to avoid cleave.
No, they shouldnāt. Thatās how we ended up in this gross mess that is retail now. In classic wow not every class was viable in every roll or every raid. Classes had their own individual niche and thatās what people enjoyed.
So you donāt want Vanilla you want some new Activision game based in the Vanilla world. Maybe once you realize that this is actually what youāre asking for you can start your own decade long petition to get Activision to implement whatever disgusting classic-hybrid it is you want. In the meantime recognize that the community that has been asking for Classic servers for the last 10 years want classic, non-viable specs and all.
![:cocktail:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/cocktail.png?v=6" ":cocktail:")