Teriz, you made this exact same argument about Demon Hunters. There is no set of words you can string together to give yourself credibility on this subject again. If you’d like to talk about Tinkers, be my guest, but “X isn’t new and is already covered by Y” is something where you took a massive L.
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No, my argument with Demon Hunters was that Blizzard would never create a Demon Hunter class unless they removed Metamorphosis from the Warlock class. I also said that Demon Hunters didn’t have enough material to be a 3 spec class.
What ended up happening is that Blizzard dismantled Demonology and gave metamorphosis to the new DH class, and they created a 2 spec class (both were completely unexpected and unprecedented at the time, and since). So you’ll excuse me if I didn’t call that one.
If you’d like a more recent (and relevant) prediction; I predicted that Dark Rangers would never become a class because they were too close to Hunters. It’s the exact same situation as Necromancers and DKs.
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This is a blatant lie & it’s part of the reason why you deliberately pruned your MMO-Champion post history. You got tired of people throwing quotes like “Demon Hunters will NEVER happen .” (paraphrasing) in your face.
Dark Rangers and Hunters aren’t actually similar to Necromancers and Death Knights at all. Again, apples & bowling balls.
Sorry, you completely destroyed your credibility here. You are not getting back.
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Forest through the trees.
I didn’t know the ability names, I knew the effects that I saw. I assumed they were named different from what the demon Hunter had in WC3. Especially since I saw Shadow bolts and him stomping around whenever I saw a Metamorphosis Warlock.
But is that your entire argument? That I didn’t assign the appropriate name of an ability to a class where it’s origin is from an entire different class in WoW or Hero in WC3?
Oh and that somehow this argument for or against Demon Hunters is somehow connected to me? I don’t know what your talking about and why you think it’s relevant to bring up and somehow assign me as part of that discussion when I never had any part in it, you have lost the plot in that regard.
But alas, forest through the trees is all you have right now.
Instead of sticking to the point that Demon Hunter and Warlock have different lore origin and have a slight crossover, you are stuck on something that is no longer relevant because it no longer exists… That is the tree 
in this regard.
There’d have to be a forest to begin with in that case, but sure, let’s see what forest folks want: a caster class that has pets and focus on shadow damage … in other words, a warlock!
But folks want it undead-themed with death spells and skeletons, so… a death knight.
This is why there isn’t a forest to begin with: if folks want to argue “gameplay” then warlocks exist, and if folks want to argue thematics, then death knights exist. There’s no way around it - you and others just keep moving the goalpost and say “that doesn’t count because I say so.”
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Why the revisionist history? You can easily go to MMOC and look up my posting history. I removed nothing, because I stand by my arguments. I’m not some little baby who gets caught up in their fee fees over a debate in a video game forum.
Further, it’s rather amusing that people like you like to dredge up the fact that I improperly believed that DHs didn’t have enough material to become their own class, but then completely ignore the point that I was correct in that Demon Hunters are really not a complete class; Not only did Blizzard have to gut an existing class to make it happen, but even the gutting of Warlocks was still not enough to create a full, robust class. If you doubt this, just venture over to the DH forum currently and you’ll see multiple threads by players who whine about how the class’ gameplay is shallow and one-note, and how they wished the class had a 3rd spec.
Gee, I wonder why that’s the case? 
And yes, the Dark Ranger situation is exactly like the Necromancer situation; A popular class concept already wrapped up in another class, and a vocal minority of posters obsessed with it becoming a full class for whatever reason. Heck, there’s still people who believe that we can have a Dark Ranger class despite the hero talent tree.
Now, is there anything else about my posting history you’d like to discuss?
BTW, this reminds me of another reason I vehemently oppose Necromancers becoming a class; Because of what happened with Warlocks and Demon Hunters. I’d like to avoid an existing class getting gutted, and another shallow, one-note class being brought into the game. Heck, Necromancers might as well be a one-spec class with no hero talents given that so much of their relevant material is in the DK class.
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Yep, still missing the forest for the trees.
Awfully convenient you and Teriz posting at the exact same time. Considering you both have very similar arguments and obsess over definitions while ignoring the actual substance. Awfully convenient indeed.
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Let’s be real here; You haven’t produced an argument of substance since you started posting in this thread.
Not that you really can, since there’s no substantive difference between a DK and a Necromancer.
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Then please, tell me.
Where exactly have I been wrong?
“Oh my god, there’s multiple people who disagree with me! THEY MUST BE A SINGULAR PERSON!!!”
The number of times I have been referred to as this is both staggering and incredibly dumb and stupid. No, I am not an alt, no I’m not posting on another character - I simply disagree with you and try to point out in a constructive way where these arguments people have fall apart.
Yes, it is possible for MULTIPLE people to disagree with people such as yourself. If you cannot fathom being wrong, just go away and make a YouTube channel called “My own echo chamber and I” or some crap like that.
You are aware the WCIII Metamorphosis ability included “shadow bolts and stomping around” right? The entire point of Meta was that it transformed your attacks into ranged abilities dealing Chaos Damage!
No, this is a small part of my argument, but you already knew that!
You were quite literally trotting out the old “WCIII Hero” argument before. My only point was that it was done then and failed. Sort of like how it’s failing now with you struggling against the fact that you took an L on the Immo Aura question.
You can keep saying this, but I’m not the one stumbling over abilities and making very basic factual inaccuracies. I’ve made substantive points in favor of Necromancer that you’ve ignored in favor of going down this road. Pity you’re losing on this field, too.
Teriz, to bring up something relevant to this thread, you literally deleted one of your Necromancer Class Idea threads because you got tired of people citing it when arguing in favor of Necromancers against you.
Imagine having such a fragile ego that you have to lie about something like this instead of just being able to say “Yeah, you know what, I don’t agree with what I wrote there. I changed my mind because of X, Y & Z”
www.mmo-champion(DOT)com/threads/1277859-My-Necromancer-class-idea-(Long)?highlight=Necromancer
EDIT: Proof, because otherwise you’re going to lie about this, too.
2 people disagreeing with me? Very likely.
2 people who both think that death knights are ranged casters and obsess over definitions in the same way? Very unlikely.
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Truth. Unholy DKS are not necromancers and never have been, the same ‘logic’ can be applied to the incorrect claims that Paladins are armored priests, demon hunters are agile warlocks, and so forth. The math just doesn’t math.
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Changing one’s opinion over time is the same as lying in your view?
Except all those examples have attributes that Priests and Warlocks can’t do.
What can a Necromancer do that a DK can’t do?
“Obsesses”?
First of all, I have been asking what folks want this entire time. What do people come up with? A death themed caster. Which Death Knights are. You bring up range, Teriz points out that Death Knights are ranged and you start calling that pedantic. So I clarified that Unholy Death Knights are designed to be a melee-to-midrange caster, as a way to showcase that even you adding “I want my death themed caster to be ranged” to still be at least partially fulfilled.
I did this via pointing out that there’s other midrange classes in the game as well, mentioning Retribution paladins. There’s currently three melee-to-midrange ranged specializations in the game (Unholy DK, Retribution Paladins, and Survival Hunters), if you add ranged-midrange classes you can add Evokers to that list as well.
Secondly, literally the only one obsessing about range is you. I pointed out that Teriz is correct and provided more examples, and now I provided more examples as well.
Yes, you have multiple people disagreeing with you and yes you have two people who are objectively correct correcting your nonsense simply because you keep saying “folks don’t get what we are asking for” and yet you can’t answer that. Instead you opt for a “multiple people cannot disagree with me… therefore they have to be the same person… oh well they called me out on it eh, eh, eh, must be, arguments too similar.”
Grow the hell up, folks act like this in kindergarten school and even at that age it is embarrassing.
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Slippery as always, but it’s not going to work out this time:
They have complete and utter mastery over the undead, able to command many of them permanently. Necromancers do not use or need runes, unlike Death Knights, and they dedicate themselves SOLELY to the study of necromantic magic, being pure casters while Death Knights are armored melee fighters, with Unholy DKS being DKS that specialize in necromancy. Of all the specializations of Acherus, they’re the best at it and even they get only one or two permanent minions.
Necromancers have no particular reliance on a weapon to use their magic, while a Death Knight needs to get a rune blade, if they for some reason lack theirs at the given time, to start flinging spells.
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See, this is exactly what I mean by obsessing over definitions. This is EXACTLY what I mean.
“Um, actually, DK is technically a ranged caster because it has spells that can be at ranged”
Do you think a group that’s looking for a ranged DPS is ever going to recruit an Unholy DK? No, they’re not, because only you and Teriz and your insanely pedantic obsession with definitions could possibly think an Unholy DK is ranged DPS.
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-Instructor Razuvious (The Emblazoned Runeblade)
Plus, Death Knights are precluded from acting as Apothecaries, which is a fantasy that can be adequately fulfilled by Necromancers.
Lots of stuff to work with. The anti-Necromancer crowd just has a limited imagination & are motivated entirely by resentment.
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Any Unholy DK that thinks they’re ranged needs to stop hiding behind the hunter and get back to putting pimples on people with Festering Strike up close, and anyone that’s not an unholy DK that thinks they can be ranged needs to play the class.
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