Someone please give me a good reason

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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Noone said anything about putting 51 points in a single tree.

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You stated that each tree should be good at what it does. The only way to optimize that is put as many points in it as possible.

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I just keep hearing old man answers like “its a slippery slope!”, “we have been waiting too long!” I said $%^ing convince me! I want to play a videogame here, im not ensuring my AARP account isnt changed by a millennial.

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84

no. the point is that we finally got the game we wanted. after 10 years, and yet the people who clearly don’t want classic keep coming in here and trying to change the game into something that would appeal to them. the problem with this is they already have a game with all the changes they could want.

you know who doesn’t have the game they want? those who want to play classic wow.

1 group has the game they want.
1 group does not.
the group who has the game they want, keeps trying to change the game they don’t want into a game they want, at the expense of the people who don’t have the game they want.

and yet we still get them. we also get people asking for flying, transmog, LFD/LFR, and others. so where is the dividing line?

and this is something we could possibly discuss. 2-3 years down the road.

i agree. so lets have this discussion once classic wow has been out for 2-3 years and stop trying to talk about changing a game that isn’t even out yet.

and you still haven’t answered my question.

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85

what about my suggestion? different server set aside for that purpose - adding new stuff to it, for example.

as far as old man answers: age is a sign of wisdom. wisdom derives from experience.

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86

This ^ :ok_hand:

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87

let me ask you this - how many times do you think we have been asked for those very same changes in the past year?
how many times can we actually debate it without getting annoyed at having the same debate again?

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88

it has now been an hour and a half and i am still waiting for an answer for how much dps a hybrid should be able to do compared to a pure filling the same role.

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It is a slippery slope though. Or if not a slippery slope, there’s a danger of ruining the alchemy of original wow. Like 80% of the decisions that we’re trying to get rid of were things people were super jazzed about initially. There’s really no telling what a change will do to the game long term. As the saying goes “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” There’s limitless evidence of remakes in all media that try to be faithful to the original but improved, and instead they end up ruining the je ne sais quoi of their source material.

Truth be told, the fact that its 2018 and not 2006 already changes things quite a bit. Discord, Youtube tutorials, streamers, thorough data-mining… these are all things that didn’t exist the first time around. And they might be enough to upset the apple cart, so why tempt fate and tinker more? It works fine just the way it is, just don’t touch it.

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90

The DPS question? I dont think this is a fair question, I think theres clearly some ideas blizzard had going with the way certain talent trees went, for example look at feral druid, I think the idea of leader of the pack isnt bad in principle, because what it does is increases the DPS of their group mates just by being nearby, the problem? It didnt make much a difference and was better to just take a 5th generic DPS, so in this instance i would say buff the effects of leader of the pack, maybe you wont see entire groups of OP druid cats because they made their DPS exactly on par with rogues, give them UTILITY which is at the core of what the hybrids are. People are much happier if its possible to be the one or two feral druids in a guild comfortably, over no chance never. the problem with hybrids wasnt being underpowered, it was how little their utility scaled into late game in certain specs.

Im totally comfortable with the core experience for the first 2-3 years, but like you said, the game is really old, theres nothing new here, you say dont discuss a game that hasnt been released, I think i did play this game in 2004, i feel like there arent any spoilers here, we can easily discuss this stuff.

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so you want to adjust their utility. i could get behind that.

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verrry interesting

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Seeing how my first reason wasn’t good enough. Blizzard has made classic this way due to the communities out cry for it, the players want it the way it was. Your post is valid and yes voice your opinions its why this forum is here! Now a good reason, is no one is agreeing with you.

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94

Except for those that never played during Vanilla.

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This is why i think the core game can stay the same but create a better enviroment for players, game makers treat these RPGs (which are based on Pen and paper games) in the wrong way, expansions essentially start a new campaign, which for people who put effort into the original campaign begin to resent because it makes their effort fruitless in the future. Classic is the campaign we want, we like the rules, the difficulty, the way the world was, the classes, pallies being alliance only, shaman being horde only, horde was all ugly, alliance was pretty and short; we want the campaign with all its quirkiness which effected the thematic experience of being in this huge world filled with danger. I think adding content to that world would only enhance, dare I say, create a fresh experience in the specific campaign we want. This doesnt mean turn the game into BFA, this means playing a great MMORPG, maybe adding content (eventually (content doesnt mean flying mounts, I mean crafted items, new dungeons, new raids (NOT TBC))) can A: greatly increase longevity of said campaign, B: not create a split in community AGAIN, and C: Ensure the rules we all cherish so much from said campaign will be the same.

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not to mention i’ve forgotten more than i remember. was watching a youtuber playing the blizzcon demo and found myself frequently saying…oh i forgot about that and that and that. will be alot of rediscovery i think.

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Haha yes, had this feeling when i fiddled around with a PServer

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I played the Demo, there were sooo many people questioning if things were the same as in vanilla, they did not know and admitted it. I think 80% of what people actually do remember about vanilla, they are remembering wrong.

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99

to be fair, I’ve had this exact discussion with you over 3x already and yet in every thread you default back to your stance that every one seeking to buff hybrids into non failure status is secretly conspiring to delete rogues or other pures from the game…

To be followed by you whining about how rogues have no utility (when their utility is ignoring threat cap) to which you reply about how the threat cap doesn’t matter in 1.12… To which I point out… yes, which is an entirely separate issue that Rogues should be fighting like mad to get fixed, and not something that crippling hybrids begins to address in any regard. Which gets ignored before you scurry off to find another thread to try and start the process over again…

Here’s FACTS for both you and the rest of the purists.

  1. You can quite easily tune hybrids upwards by improving damage, UNIQUE utility to the tree in question, and/or efficiency.

  2. You can do #1 without breaking PvP… That’s actually pretty damn easy to do if you actually think about the problem for more than 5 seconds.

  3. You can also do #1 without changing how the class actually interacts with the world. An example I frequently use for Rets is simply making 1/2/3/4/5% of Vengeance’s buff apply towards group physical damage. Nice and easy raid utility buff for Ret, that doesn’t do a damn thing to how Ret is played, but maybe gets them a bit more consideration for a Raid invite to stack in a melee group.

The game is more authentic when you actually get a real chance to experience it… Authentically sitting in Org on raid nights because you happen to like Enhancement shaman, and contrary to purist belief actually suck pretty significantly at healing in your agility gear, is just a stupid game design decision… particularly when Vanilla is so much more raid centric than the game has ever been since.

Moving on… I find the paradox that you guys claim you can’t trust blizzard to do anything right, but absolutely trust their decision to purposely gimp a large chunk of the specs again, just because they where broken in vanilla.

I also find the paradox of claiming to want an authentic experience, then talking in any fashion what so ever about getting to run around with 1.12 for the entire way, let alone 1.12 for a period of time longer than 2 years in the same content.

The purist contingent on these forums has more or less proven themselves to be completely incapable of rational debate on topics presented with sound reasoning behind them, simply because they can’t digest anything larger than the “#nochanges” meme they constantly spew forth.

Now, granted, there have also been a number of fairly stupid suggestions for the pro change side, but you can’t ignore that there have been a ton of “nochange” arguments that are just hilariously terrible as well…

If you argue that 1.12 is #nochanges… then you’re an idiot… because 1.12 completely destroys Molten Core progression in itemization, talent/class design, and threat generation. At best you can make the case that the state existed at some point during vanilla, but MC was no where near a progression raid at that point.

If you argue that spell batching isn’t needed, then you are fundamentally changing the entire combat structure of the entire game, and stupid enough to think it’s a smaller deal than buffing hybrid raid viability.

Or rolling with 1.12 for a period of time longer than 2 years? Yeah, again, fundamentally and totally changing the dynamics of vanilla progression.

How about the purists in favor of keeping obvious bugs in place? I’ve seen morons advocating for keeping reckoning bomb in on these forums… or the ZG Blood Plague, because that was soo much fun the first time.

What about the purists in favor of keeping bugged items? Try and talk about Wolf’shead helm rationally on these forums, and people lose their mind in a #nochange frenzy, but that was about as clearly a bugged/broken item as has ever existed in this game… Single lvl 40 blue helm is bis not just at 60, but would be at 70 as well, and completely changes the entire rotation of the class to use.

We obviously need to strive to keep things as close as possible to Vanilla, but it’s a mistake to dismiss changes outright.

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100

My rogue was the worst for that when I did a Pserver run after Classic got announced…

So confused when my combo points dropped after I target swapped… Or when my poisons had both duration (which I expected) and CHARGES that depleted stupidly fast (7x different applications of instant poison for one wailing caverns run)

My warrior, just gave me the hard dose of reality with how RNG things could get, when I got dumpstered by a lvl 10 zhevra when I was level 11, because it dodge/parried/missed 5x in a row with a super slow 2hander.

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