Someone please give me a good reason

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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So, I understand why people want to play Pure classic and go through the timeline that original WoW went through. I was in open beta and played the game all the way until i joined the army right before TBC launched and had to quit seriously playing. I have seriously fond memories of the game in high school, playing with friends. I totally get people seeking nostalgia, however I DONT understand some of the overzealous attitudes a lot of folks have on here. When I see people ask if there could be minor talent tweaks or class balances these people really freak out. The only real conclusion i can come to is all of these people are from private servers, and dont actually care about playing a fun game (I.E. appreciation for the needed community in classic with no quality of life changes that isolate players), rather, they seem to just want to jump on the treadmill with all of their zeal of the private servers and THIS TIME GET IT RIGHT! Maybe they rolled a class that wasn’t viable for raiding their first time, or they have everything figured out (charts of BIS gear from 1-60, talent trees laid out, questing figured out). This seems to me to be an issue about knowing exactly how its going to go and want the meta-game the hell out of classic wow so they can stroke their huge E-peen (or e-vag, dont want to exclude the ladies). I can really not think of any logical reason you could be so opposed to any change, when we all god damn well know what made classic good, and what problems the later expansions kept perpetrating.

I remember playing TBC when i had a bit of free time between deployments and everyone was so thrilled, all of the classes seemed to have viable talent trees in all specs, no one was bummed out, no one was complaining, It wasnt class balancing that ruined WoW, it wasnt adjusting talents and giving everyone a fun gaming experience, it was the isolation, it was them streamlining the game to create an online action game that was easier to access than the great RPG WoW started as. I really want someone to change my mind on this, I dare you to actually change my mind and give me a solid logical argument against any kind of tweaks to make the game fun for everyone.

Dont bother posting anything like “no changes!” because thats exactly what Im railing against, get that reductionist garbage out of here.

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i can explain. to balance paladin usefulness and make them a viable tank option with its own flavor, tbc introduced upgrades to consecration. this made it so warriors were only needed on a couple raid bosses and paladins literally owned tbc. also, since their aoe taunt was so good, no one had to CC anymore and there goes wow, down the slowly swirling drain of brainless dungeon grinds, where the only person that has to think is the tank

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post vanilla dungeons:

healer: must fill red bar. must fill red bar. must fill red bar.

dps: target boom target boom target boom dont matter what boom just boom target boom

tank: i’m the only person that’s actually conscious.

:mage:

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I’m starting to think that there are a group of North Koreans doing this. The need for some people to want to shut down any discussion just because somebody doesn’t like the idea is ridiculous.

Just keep posting, and report anybody who tells you you can’t join the conversation just because it brings up change.

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Because the years have proven that trying to balance the game stripped the RPG of it. It is stupidly hard if not impossible to balance a game that has PvP and PvE in it without making the classes feel generic.

This is not supposed to be a balanced game. Hybrids HAVE to be worse tanks or damage dealers. They are hybrids after all.

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I don’t know. I’d just really like to experience how the game was during those days. Every great and horrible detail of it. That’s mostly why I’d prefer no changes. I played Vanilla pretty late into it’s life(started Aug 2005). I never played private servers either and it’s been a very long time. So, I don’t even really have any memories of how bad grinds were and such.

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i think it would be best to start Classic as close to Vanilla as possible. any changes that are made before the game is released will literally change the game. It will no longer be the same. Personally, I am not opposed to any change ever, and I doubt I am the only one, and even people who think they are now will likely be willing to have changes in the future. but we have been fighting for Vanilla WoW for YEARS, some people over a decade, and it is for those people that the classic version is being released. We don’t want Vanilla with a bunch of “small tweaks or changes,” because that is not vanilla, and once you change one thing for balance you need to change other things for balance, and it goes on. Lets get Vanilla out, enjoy that, and if down the line a large majority of community feels some changes or additions need to be made, then we can consider it.

Edit: I have never played in a private server.

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I have noticed this a lot even after Classic was announced. While I am on the side that things should not be changed, the attitude that you see is borderline on entitlement. Keep in mind that the direction that Classic would go was not made aware officially until the most recent Blizzcon. Like I get why people seem to react in this manner, but it is unneeded. Either Blizzard will get it right or people just won’t play it. At the same time, we should be trying to be respectful to others in trying to be inclusive. When the entitlement mentality comes in, it results in aggressive excluding behavior.

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It is quite simple really.
it would take more then minor changes to make specs like Retribution, Protection (Paladin), Balance, Feral Cat, Feral Tank, Shadow, Elemental, and Enhancement perform at a decent level.
Given the above, what is the point in asking for minor changes only?

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There isn’t. There should be sweeping changes to all classes to make them viable in the roles available. It should have happened in vanilla, and it did near the end to a small degree and further more into TBC. At least we are starting with a decent patch and hopefully Blizz will move forward. Otherwise, the nostalgia will wear quickly.

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and then everything has to be retuned and we still end up with tbc (which i mostly love though i regret the loss of CC in dungeons cause it was so hands on and participatory)

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TBC still had lots of cc, was hard to do Shattered Halls or some others without it.

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I wanted changes. I even suggested retooling loot tables for all the dungeons so nobody would know where what would drop (I still think this would be cool). But, in the vein of that, I would be happy to just have the original game without any changes. The more I thought about it, the more adulterated the game would become. Then I wouldnt really be playing Vanilla but some hybrid version of it.

I think after an initial release that the community will make it known if they want changes in certain areas. For now I am happy to have as close to the OG game as possible.

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thank you for proving my point. those who start by asking for minor changes use that as a setup.

ask for minor changes - they still don’t perform after.
clearly this is an issue for them, so they ask for more and more changes.
and all of a sudden the game isn’t vanilla anymore.

and for those of you who are pro balance changes - how much dps would hybrids have to do compared to a pure to be acceptable? 70%? 80%?

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not if ya had a pally tank. :smiley:

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I still remember CC being used in TBC quite frequently. There was even a boss fight that required it. In any case, dungeons had some of the most challenging experiences that I can remember and enjoyed.

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Burning Crusade still heavily relied upon the use of CC. it was wrath when everything became aoe tank and spank.

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Eh…the damage output in there was rough unless you outgeared it.

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Im not talking about TBC changes in classic, Im thinking its not so outrageous they perhaps know much more in retrospect, and would it be impossible to change a few talents deep in a few trees to make the overall spec more viable? TBC included more spells, abilities, and many more talents/levels, new features, etc.

You know, i dont know why its impossible to go through the entire life cycle of Classic, then at the end when TBC would have been released they instead release some new raids and dungeons, change up some talents, etc. I honestly would rather see Classic expanded on. I think what MMORPGs get wrong is they have something good going, then make drastic changes with expansions. Think of these games like a pen and paper. Lets say you and your friends have a D&D group going for two years, youre all decked out, so proud of your progress, then bam, next game your gear is irrelevant, your progress is largely irrelevant, none of that progression really mattered, youd be kinda annoyed, the DM just ruined the game for you. Id rather see them expand on the actual game after a certain amount of time, then just expand the game with TBC.

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This game succeeded and became the most successful mmorpg of all time based upon the fact that it was an engaging experience in which you were immersed in an huge wonderful world that you needed to group up with other players in order to overcome obstacles and grow in power.

Was it perfect? No, but it was so good in most aspects that it was overlooked.

What do you think needs to be changed to make it “better for you” and why?