Some form of Sharding

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

Of course it does. Shard the world, you increase resources, you decrease competition. What you’re saying are facts, but you’re just getting baited.

I was rereading posts from yesterday and was embarrassed how I let a troll bait me. Not an excuse, but when I see someone making things up about me there is an impulse to set them straight. I just need to rely on the fact people understand that that’s what trolls do: they lie. So it is what it is.

The troll you’re arguing with takes a different approach. At least he’s not hate-filled and trying to make everyone as miserable as he is. He just doesn’t want an authentic Classic. But either way, his posts exist just to rile up emotion and sow discord.

So again I’ll suggest just ignoring these trolls, as these conversations serve no productive purpose. But first I need to follow my own advice.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Odinmar-eldrethalas

@Ziryus-doomhammer

that means there’s more people in the world consuming resources

No, it means there’s more people in a specific zone, not in the world. Critical difference and very important distinction between a MO and a MMO because of the seamlessness (or lack thereof) of zonal boundaries.

Not really because the number of people in a zone is directly related to the number of people in the world.

And in our simple theoretical situation we’re assuming a single zone.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

and yet as we’ve already identified, sharding inflates the amount of resources in the economy and gold in the economy.

Except that it doesn’t.

yes it does. if 100 people are in a zone and it splits them into two shards thats generating extra resources. you can claim the resources stay the same per player by adding extra players, but the fact is that you are in fact adding more resources per server to the world.

And that means there’s more people in the world consuming resources as well so it’s a net zero difference.

no it just means theres more people in that area.
so i could for example flood everyone in my server into a zone that is notorious for spawning lotus and it would create extra shards and thus extra lotus.

this works against the economy and against vanilla.
in vanilla there was only so much of each resource and it didnt matter if your server had 100 people or 2500 people, you were limited in the resources available.

[Whiskee-azgalor]

He’s actually making the claim that you can find “sharding boundaries” in the world, place a player on the other side and then invite them to the group and the boundary will no longer shard the two of you when you cross. Everyone else who crosses it, will be sharded and the two of you and any other players that perform the same circus trick will have an entire area in a shard to themselves.

Yeah, pretty crazy argument.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

in vanilla there was only so many resources, it didn’t matter if you had 100 or 2500 people on your server.
with sharding i could flood everyone into the zones that spawn those rare resources and generate extra of those.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

@Odinmar-eldrethalas

@Ziryus-doomhammer

that means there’s more people in the world consuming resources

No, it means there’s more people in a specific zone, not in the world. Critical difference and very important distinction between a MO and a MMO because of the seamlessness (or lack thereof) of zonal boundaries.

Not really because the number of people in a zone is directly related to the number of people in the world.

And in our simple theoretical situation we’re assuming a single zone.

no it’s not. i could have 2500 people online but only 5 in a zone.
or i could have 2500 people online and 500 in a zone.

notice the difference.

[Odinmar-eldrethalas (Odinmar)]

the number of people in a zone is directly related to the number of people in the world

But it’s not. The number of people in a specific zone can fluctuate wildly if world population stays the same depending on what’s going on and why people are where they are.

That’s why starting zones will need (hopefully temporary) sharding whereas other zones will (hopefully not) need it during the first few days. Starting zones will be ghost towns a few weeks later even if world population doubles in the meantime.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

the number of people in a zone is directly related to the number of people in the world

But it’s not. The number of people in a zone can fluctuate wildly if world population stays the same depending on what’s going on and why people are where they are.

That’s why starting zones will need (hopefully temporary) sharding whereas other zones will (hopefully not) need it during the first few days. Starting zones will be ghost towns a few weeks later even if world population doubles in the meantime.

exactly. at launch i could have 2k people online, but almost none of those are going to be anywhere 30+
meanwhile a year later i could have 2k online and most of those will be in 60 zones.

in vanilla this didn’t matter because only a set amount of resources would spawn no matter what.
with sharding all i have to do is flood my guild into high end zones and we effectively force more resources to be spawned then a server would normally yield.

[Odinmar-eldrethalas (Odinmar)]

with sharding all i have to do is flood my guild into high end zones and we effectively force more resources to be spawned then a server would normally yield

Right – or multiboxing could cheese the sharding as well.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

and yet as we’ve already identified, sharding inflates the amount of resources in the economy and gold in the economy.

Except that it doesn’t.

yes it does. if 100 people are in a zone and it splits them into two shards thats generating extra resources. you can claim the resources stay the same per player by adding extra players, but the fact is that you are in fact adding more resources per server to the world.

And that means there’s more people in the world consuming resources as well so it’s a net zero difference.

no it just means theres more people in that area.
so i could for example flood everyone in my server into a zone that is notorious for spawning lotus and it would create extra shards and thus extra lotus.

this works against the economy and against vanilla.
in vanilla there was only so much of each resource and it didnt matter if your server had 100 people or 2500 people, you were limited in the resources available.

Not really, if there are 2500 people gathering resources there are 2500 people consuming resources as well. If there’s say double that and there are 5000 people gathering resources and it needs to be sharded there are still 5000 people consuming resources.

So net zero impact on the economy.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

and yet as we’ve already identified, sharding inflates the amount of resources in the economy and gold in the economy.

Except that it doesn’t.

yes it does. if 100 people are in a zone and it splits them into two shards thats generating extra resources. you can claim the resources stay the same per player by adding extra players, but the fact is that you are in fact adding more resources per server to the world.

And that means there’s more people in the world consuming resources as well so it’s a net zero difference.

no it just means theres more people in that area.
so i could for example flood everyone in my server into a zone that is notorious for spawning lotus and it would create extra shards and thus extra lotus.

this works against the economy and against vanilla.
in vanilla there was only so much of each resource and it didnt matter if your server had 100 people or 2500 people, you were limited in the resources available.

Not really, if there are 2500 people gathering resources there are 2500 people consuming resources as well. If there’s say double that and there are 5000 people gathering resources and it needs to be sharded there are still 5000 people consuming resources.

So net zero impact on the economy.

except that’s not vanilla.
in vanilla your server generated only a set number of resources. didn’t matter if you had 2500 or 5000.
furthermore it’s not a net zero because i can flood a zone to force the resources i want to spawn.

[Hornyswoggle-khazgoroth (Hornyswoggle)]

Starting areas for me. I want that feeling of that overpopulated world X amount of players just sitting on top of a quest spawn. General chat will be hilarious

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

and yet as we’ve already identified, sharding inflates the amount of resources in the economy and gold in the economy.

Except that it doesn’t.

yes it does. if 100 people are in a zone and it splits them into two shards thats generating extra resources. you can claim the resources stay the same per player by adding extra players, but the fact is that you are in fact adding more resources per server to the world.

And that means there’s more people in the world consuming resources as well so it’s a net zero difference.

no it just means theres more people in that area.
so i could for example flood everyone in my server into a zone that is notorious for spawning lotus and it would create extra shards and thus extra lotus.

this works against the economy and against vanilla.
in vanilla there was only so much of each resource and it didnt matter if your server had 100 people or 2500 people, you were limited in the resources available.

Not really, if there are 2500 people gathering resources there are 2500 people consuming resources as well. If there’s say double that and there are 5000 people gathering resources and it needs to be sharded there are still 5000 people consuming resources.

So net zero impact on the economy.

except that’s not vanilla.
in vanilla your server generated only a set number of resources. didn’t matter if you had 2500 or 5000.
furthermore it’s not a net zero because i can flood a zone to force the resources i want to spawn.

Correct in vanilla we had server caps set so that there was a finite number of people playing. Since it sounds like those server caps are also not going to be in place it makes sense that more people playing at the same time will consume more resources and hence more resources need to be spawned.

[Odinmar-eldrethalas (Odinmar)]

Not really, if there are 2500 people gathering resources there are 2500 people consuming resources as well. If there’s say double that and there are 5000 people gathering resources and it needs to be sharded there are still 5000 people consuming resources.

So net zero impact on the economy.

You are making a fundamental mistake here and pretending that “resources” are consumed at the same rate they are generated. This is simply untrue, especially when it comes to gold. There are no steady gold sinks that keep up with gold generated (e.g. selling grey items to a vendor, and a few dozen copper dropping off of a given mob) when the local gold generation of a given zone roughly doubles the moment a unified zone shards into two separate shards.

It has a big impact of a nascent economy if gold surges into it too quickly.

Unless they tweak the gold sinks appropriately, it will have a big inflationary effect over time.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Not really, if there are 2500 people gathering resources there are 2500 people consuming resources as well. If there’s say double that and there are 5000 people gathering resources and it needs to be sharded there are still 5000 people consuming resources.

So net zero impact on the economy.

You are making a fundamental mistake here and pretending that “resources” are consumed at the same rate they are generated. This is simply untrue, especially when it comes to gold. There are no steady gold sinks that keep up with gold generated (e.g. selling grey items to a vendor, and a few dozen copper dropping off of a given mob) when the local gold generation of a given zone roughly doubles the moment a unified zone shards into two separate shards.

It has a big impact of a nascent economy if gold surges into it too quickly.

Unless they tweak the gold sinks appropriately, it will have a big inflationary effect over time.

WoW’s economy in total is not net zero and never has been regardless of whether things are sharded or not. So don’t pretend that sharding matters in that regard.

[Odinmar-eldrethalas (Odinmar)]

WoW’s economy in total is not net zero and never has been regardless of whether things are sharded or not. So don’t pretend that sharding matters in that regard.

I never said it was net zero. Of course it’s inflationary. However, don’t pretend that 1% inflation is just different by degree and not by kind compared to 10% inflation.

Sharding will increase inflation to disruptive levels. Yes, without sharding inflation will still be positive, but lower numbers are importantly better than higher numbers. It’s a fine-tuning thing, that sharding makes more challenging, if not impossible to pull off.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

WoW’s economy in total is not net zero and never has been regardless of whether things are sharded or not. So don’t pretend that sharding matters in that regard.

I never said it was net zero. Of course it’s inflationary. However, don’t pretend that 1% inflation is just different by degree and not by kind compared to 10% inflation.

Sharding will increase inflation to disruptive levels. Yes, without sharding inflation will still be positive, but lower numbers are importantly better than higher numbers. It’s a fine-tuning thing, that sharding makes more challenging, if not impossible to pull off.

Not really the economy was pretty screwed up in vanilla because it was first far higher than 1% inflation and as you noted not net zero. Sharding doesn’t fundamentally change that nor as I noted and you seem to ignore more people gathering resources also means more people consuming them so it doesn’t impact inflation.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

except in vanilla a low pop server still generated the same amount of resources as a high population.
so why should classic be any different?

[Odinmar-eldrethalas (Odinmar)]

you seem to ignore more people gathering resources also means more people consuming them

And again you ignore the fact that gold is not consumed in the same way a skin or an herb or a meat that gets cooked gets consumed. What sinks gold is very, very different from what sinks things like mats. In fact, a lot of mats (like skins) are sunk by vendoring them and turning them into gold.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

except it causes inflation. just look at retail.