Some form of Sharding

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

Misinformed or purposely inflating the supposed issues with sharding to create more stigma? Hmmmm…

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Don’t get me wrong I’m hoping servers in classic stabilize to where a healthy no queue server was in vanilla.

But if it doesn’t and they end up with servers say 5K people and have two shards for every zone? Sharding has a net zero effect on the economy. But does have significant other impacts.

it has the effect of having twice the resources avalible for the playerbase to gather.

but you will say “but theres twice the cost it took to gather those resources!”

to that i say what if it costs nothing but the time it took to gather those resources?

that means 2 x the gold or whatever going straight to the economy.

And twice the player base consuming those resources, so net zero gain.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

Just ignore the troll, man. He knows it’s sharding. He’s just trolling. Or he’s just clueless. Either way, he doesn’t deserve any attention.

Do you think it’s not sharding? Let me give you a little hint: nodes were disappearing in the demo. The demo had sharding, not phasing.

[Fesz-cenarius]

you have to think about it as people in a zone with sharding and without.
your doubling the people because your adding a shard. that isn’t a true comparison.

The people can only be doubled because of the shard though.

But additional shards can be added without doubling the number of people.

The people that were in just one shard would then be divided among two shards resulting in double the resources generated for the same amount of people.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

They don’t even have to clear the entire shard. If they are clearing over half of it they increase the rewards.

At the end of the day X people in one shard gets the same resources per person as 2X people in 2 shards. And if there are two shards there are twice as many people consuming those resources as well.

except your comparison is bad.
because your comparing 1 shard to 2 shards. were not comparing sharding to sharding.
were comparing vanilla. with X to sharding with the same amount of people in 2 shards.
so your math is either x or x in 2 zones.

Not really it’s either X people in 1 zone or 2x people in 2 shards in 1 zone. And the same resources per person.

And once again if there are 2x people gathering resources there are also 2x people using those resources so it makes sense there should be 2x resources.

no its not.
if vanilla does not have sharding you have 100 people in a zone fighting over x resources.
if you have sharding those same hundred people are split into two or more shards thus more resources generated.
same people, more mobs to kill, more resources being generated.

your comparison is bad because your thinking about it in retail terms.
you have to think about it as people in a zone with sharding and without.
your doubling the people because your adding a shard. that isn’t a true comparison.

if i have 100 people in elwynn without sharding, its tough crap, they fight over the mobs and generate whatever resources they can generate.
if i have 100 people in elwynn with sharding, they get split and have more mobs and resources they can kill and generate.

I’m not sure how better to explain that if you have twice as many people using the resources twice as many resources need to be generated.

And the flipside is of course if twice as many people are available to generate resources twice as many resources are being used.

the problem is this. your adding people because your adding shards. just because your adding shards does not mean you get to add people. the whole reason for sharding is to split people up to make less competition.
lets go back to the beginning. we have a maximum of 100 people. we have 100 mobs each dropping 1g and 5 cloth

1. no sharding - those 100 people each get 1 mob. 1g and 5 cloth each.
2. sharding - they get split into lets say 2 shards. that means 100 people in 2 shards killing 2 mobs each. 2g and 10 cloth each.

the disconnect for you is you are somehow magically pulling more people out of nowhere.

Don’t get me wrong I’m hoping servers in classic stabilize to where a healthy no queue server was in vanilla.

But if it doesn’t and they end up with servers say 5K people and have two shards for every zone? Sharding has a net zero effect on the economy. But does have significant other impacts.

okay lets try agian. lets say theres a maximum of 5k people on a srever.
all 5k of those people are in one zone.
5k people fighting over 500 mobs. is going to generate x resources.
now we shard those people so that there is 500 people in 10 shards.
that means each person gets one mob.
did we add more resources?

Do you understand that shards are designed to account for populations beyond what vanilla was designed for and could handle?

If they exceed server capacities beyond what they were in vanilla that needs to be accounted for in some way.

Either it’s shards, or it faster spawns, or dynamic tags and multi tap nodes. Pick your poison.

the problem is your adding people magically to the equation out of nowhere.
where do those extra people come from?
we were in a zone with 100 people. no sharding - x resources.
with sharding? - sharding goes - hmm, need to split these up. puts em in two shards. now we have 100 people with 2x resources.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

Misinformed or purposely inflating the supposed issues with sharding to create more stigma? Hmmmm…

and yet you can’t deny our argument about it effecting the economy and resources.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

@Mogar-stormrage

Just ignore the troll, man. He knows it’s sharding. He’s just trolling. Or he’s just clueless. Either way, he doesn’t deserve any attention.

You’re wrong, you know you’re wrong and you’ll always be wrong because a troll doesn’t care about facts, only about getting under people’s skin.

I care about the truth, I care about facts and that’s why I oppose you every single time you try to distort reality. Sharding didn’t take your node away:

World of Warcraft Forums

You’re going to play Classic even if there’s sharding despite crying to Blizzard that you wouldn’t. You’re going to get water that is transparent, because that’s the way it was in Vanilla, despite your pleas for Blizzard to allow your water rambo tactics to be a thing by making it all opaque (when they never, ever were because most Vanilla water was fully transparent).

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

Don’t get me wrong I’m hoping servers in classic stabilize to where a healthy no queue server was in vanilla.

But if it doesn’t and they end up with servers say 5K people and have two shards for every zone? Sharding has a net zero effect on the economy. But does have significant other impacts.

it has the effect of having twice the resources avalible for the playerbase to gather.

but you will say “but theres twice the cost it took to gather those resources!”

to that i say what if it costs nothing but the time it took to gather those resources?

that means 2 x the gold or whatever going straight to the economy.

And twice the player base consuming those resources, so net zero gain.

or twice the resources for the same playerbase. so twice the gain.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

They don’t even have to clear the entire shard. If they are clearing over half of it they increase the rewards.

At the end of the day X people in one shard gets the same resources per person as 2X people in 2 shards. And if there are two shards there are twice as many people consuming those resources as well.

except your comparison is bad.
because your comparing 1 shard to 2 shards. were not comparing sharding to sharding.
were comparing vanilla. with X to sharding with the same amount of people in 2 shards.
so your math is either x or x in 2 zones.

Not really it’s either X people in 1 zone or 2x people in 2 shards in 1 zone. And the same resources per person.

And once again if there are 2x people gathering resources there are also 2x people using those resources so it makes sense there should be 2x resources.

no its not.
if vanilla does not have sharding you have 100 people in a zone fighting over x resources.
if you have sharding those same hundred people are split into two or more shards thus more resources generated.
same people, more mobs to kill, more resources being generated.

your comparison is bad because your thinking about it in retail terms.
you have to think about it as people in a zone with sharding and without.
your doubling the people because your adding a shard. that isn’t a true comparison.

if i have 100 people in elwynn without sharding, its tough crap, they fight over the mobs and generate whatever resources they can generate.
if i have 100 people in elwynn with sharding, they get split and have more mobs and resources they can kill and generate.

I’m not sure how better to explain that if you have twice as many people using the resources twice as many resources need to be generated.

And the flipside is of course if twice as many people are available to generate resources twice as many resources are being used.

the problem is this. your adding people because your adding shards. just because your adding shards does not mean you get to add people. the whole reason for sharding is to split people up to make less competition.
lets go back to the beginning. we have a maximum of 100 people. we have 100 mobs each dropping 1g and 5 cloth

1. no sharding - those 100 people each get 1 mob. 1g and 5 cloth each.
2. sharding - they get split into lets say 2 shards. that means 100 people in 2 shards killing 2 mobs each. 2g and 10 cloth each.

the disconnect for you is you are somehow magically pulling more people out of nowhere.

Don’t get me wrong I’m hoping servers in classic stabilize to where a healthy no queue server was in vanilla.

But if it doesn’t and they end up with servers say 5K people and have two shards for every zone? Sharding has a net zero effect on the economy. But does have significant other impacts.

okay lets try agian. lets say theres a maximum of 5k people on a srever.
all 5k of those people are in one zone.
5k people fighting over 500 mobs. is going to generate x resources.
now we shard those people so that there is 500 people in 10 shards.
that means each person gets one mob.
did we add more resources?

Do you understand that shards are designed to account for populations beyond what vanilla was designed for and could handle?

If they exceed server capacities beyond what they were in vanilla that needs to be accounted for in some way.

Either it’s shards, or it faster spawns, or dynamic tags and multi tap nodes. Pick your poison.

the problem is your adding people magically to the equation out of nowhere.
where do those extra people come from?
we were in a zone with 100 people. no sharding - x resources.
with sharding? - sharding goes - hmm, need to split these up. puts em in two shards. now we have 100 people with 2x resources.

No I’m not adding people out of nowhere.

I’m adding people playing the game. If there are X people playing the game they can gather Y resources and they will consume Z resources. Double all those and nothing changes to individual player.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Don’t get me wrong I’m hoping servers in classic stabilize to where a healthy no queue server was in vanilla.

But if it doesn’t and they end up with servers say 5K people and have two shards for every zone? Sharding has a net zero effect on the economy. But does have significant other impacts.

it has the effect of having twice the resources avalible for the playerbase to gather.

but you will say “but theres twice the cost it took to gather those resources!”

to that i say what if it costs nothing but the time it took to gather those resources?

that means 2 x the gold or whatever going straight to the economy.

And twice the player base consuming those resources, so net zero gain.

or twice the resources for the same playerbase. so twice the gain.

Except it’s also twice the player base

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

No I’m not adding people out of nowhere.

I’m adding people playing the game. If there are X people playing the game they can gather Y resources and they will consume Z resources. Double all those and nothing changes to individual player.

your adding players that didn’t exist is the problem. we had 100 people. without sharding that doesn’t get changed.
with sharding they get split up. do you see where your logic is bad?

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

Except it’s also twice the player base

except its not. without sharding 100 people is 100 people. with sharding it automatically splits them up.
sorry you can’t handle the truth.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

No I’m not adding people out of nowhere.

I’m adding people playing the game. If there are X people playing the game they can gather Y resources and they will consume Z resources. Double all those and nothing changes to individual player.

your adding players that didn’t exist is the problem. we had 100 people. without sharding that doesn’t get changed.
with sharding they get split up. do you see where your logic is bad?

You are assuming that sharding just takes a 2.5K pop server and shards everything into two.

That is not what I’m saying. I’m saying that a 5K pop server sharded into two has the same resources per person as that 2.5K pop server unsharded.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

I don’t like responding to trolls, but you are wrong. It’s caused by sharding. The same thing happened in the demo.

As did players disappearing and reappearing randomly. But like usual you don’t know what you’re talking about, you don’t have first hand experience, so you just make some obscure reference not based in reality.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

No I’m not adding people out of nowhere.

I’m adding people playing the game. If there are X people playing the game they can gather Y resources and they will consume Z resources. Double all those and nothing changes to individual player.

your adding players that didn’t exist is the problem. we had 100 people. without sharding that doesn’t get changed.
with sharding they get split up. do you see where your logic is bad?

You are assuming that sharding just takes a 2.5K pop server and shards everything into two.

That is not what I’m saying. I’m saying that a 5K pop server sharded into two has the same resources per person as that 2.5K pop server unsharded.

okay ill play your game. how mayn people do you think could effectively quest in northshire abby?

[Xecks-stormrage (Xecks)]

And twice the player base consuming those resources, so net zero gain.

lets just say there is a server that has a 100 person population cap just for simplicitys sake.

theres a mob that drops 1g and 5 cloth on a 1 min respawn timer.

bobby the player kills that mob for 10 mins.

he nets 10g and 50 cloth.

that goes into the economy of the 100 person server.

all the sudden they introduce a sharding to the same 100 person server.

theres 2 shards total on this server for simplicitys sake.

the same mob that drops the 1g and 5 cloth on the same 1 min timer can now be killed on 2 different phases.

bobby kills the same mob for 10 mins and gets 10g 50 cloth.

ralph his friend is on the other shard and farms the same mob for 10 mins and gets 10g 50 cloth.

so the economy in total gains 20g and 100 cloth for the same 100 person community.

i dont know how i can spell it out for you any simpler.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

The same thing happened in the demo.

Every single clip I find has the player joining a group. Show me a clip of random sharding. I’m right, as usual and you’re wrong.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

No I’m not adding people out of nowhere.

I’m adding people playing the game. If there are X people playing the game they can gather Y resources and they will consume Z resources. Double all those and nothing changes to individual player.

your adding players that didn’t exist is the problem. we had 100 people. without sharding that doesn’t get changed.
with sharding they get split up. do you see where your logic is bad?

You are assuming that sharding just takes a 2.5K pop server and shards everything into two.

That is not what I’m saying. I’m saying that a 5K pop server sharded into two has the same resources per person as that 2.5K pop server unsharded.

okay ill play your game. how mayn people do you think could effectively quest in northshire abby?

No idea, there was some finite amount where it worked and a point where it would not work.

[Xecks-stormrage (Xecks)]

Every single clip I find has the player joining a group. Show me a clip of random sharding. I’m right, as usual and you’re wrong.

it really is usually only when you join a group.

but honestly i too have been bumped shard when too many people were there killing a boss. its rare as hell but it happens. its usually only when you arent in a raid group killing said boss and are solo.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

LOL, you link clips proving that sharding is causing them to despawn and then say I’m wrong saying sharding is causing them to despawn.

And yes, it happens randomly too. I was in the demo, unlike you. I stood at a mining node, and logged off. Logged into another character at that exact same spot, no node. I tested this. I tested it in highly populated areas. I tested it in seemingly empty areas. Same results. If you’re in one shard you see one thing, if you’re in another you see another. It’s not some magical, ‘Someone looted it within x amount of time so it disappears.’ It’s sharding. You walk away from the spot and it magically reappears. Then you go back towards it and it disappears. This is a fact.