They have chassed everyone else away. Logically getting rid of them would prob bring randoms back to life, it would also draw in more new players. Logically it’s the best choice.
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Yeah… I’m arguing that’s probably not accurate.
It’s a correlation ≠ causation thing. Though I’ll acknowledge that as players fled the game mode, encountering a higher and higher frequency of the static premade population caused more players to leave as an exponent. There’s probably a Fibonacci-esque curve that shows people leaving the game mode. But premades aren’t the cause. The frequency of running into premades is a symptom of the Exodus.
That’s not logical. It’s just emotional.
I have said many times of course they aren’t the only cause, but they are most certainly aren’t helping.
It is logical, no emotion needed. It’s a problem that is bad for the game and fixing it will be good for the game.
Maybe. But you don’t have enough data to claim logic is driving that claim.
On the contrary we have seen many times how fracturing the BG community has contributed to less than optimal outcomes. The very state of the Random BG mode, which we are talking about right now, is at least partly a result of the fracturing of the BG community. So “logic” would dictate that more of the same would yield more of the same.
It’s very blatant it’s driving away players.
Removing bad people that are making the game borderline unplayable can’t do more harm than good. They are adding to the decline of the game. Would you rather have slow queues for a while as people come back or would you rather it dies completely?
They are just people. Not bad people. Typically when people do things a game developer doesn’t like, it’s because the design is bad and incentivizes the behavior.
Unfortunately, they may be the only thing making the game playable, as I’ve been arguing. What is exacerbating the problem is everyone else leaving the system and that started because of design decisions, not premades.
People exploiting and ruining the game for their own selfish greed are bad people.
So that means that it’s ok for them to exploit and ruin the game because “design is bad”?
It’s objectively not. Scaring players away from the game is a very bad thing. Specially when the game is already losing players.
Premades are also a huge part of the problem why won’t you accept that.
As long as they don’t break any rules yes it’s fine
As long as the game design doesn’t support new players with a huge threshold in pvp when you should have a lot of add-ons and WA to track 100 ot things and mechanics and every expansion makes the game even more complicated and add new mechanics and new things to track
With terrible balance
And a lot more problems
People would quit pvp and the game in general and most of them are not because of premades
Premades compared to the other problems that the game is a small minor problem
We have been over this, exploiting is against the rules.
Blizzard is working on removing addons. Also, randoms used to be a great place for people to learn the game.
So make it worse with exploiting?
Like rampant exploiting?
I have said over and over, of course “premades” aren’t the only problem, but they sure aren’t helping. It’s weird you guys always ignore the parts that don’t fit your narrative.
Complete hogwash.
What they’re doing is adjusting the API so that addons can’t access as many features of PvE and specifically Raids.
They’ve done this before.
There is absolutely no mention of “removing addons” in general.
yeahhhh…lets just not let a huge portions of people play the game so we can accommodate some potatoes that just wanna roll every game with zero challenge :\ not a good take my dude
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That’s not what anyone is arguing.
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Randoms always was terrible place to learn they give an incorrect understanding of the game especially epics when you have to win the first fight and then afk to victory
Geared experienced people that play all the day randoms don’t help either but you want to get rid of the premades so this people could farm pugs on randoms instead
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Yeah we’ve already been past that.
The conversation now is about the “teams” dodging each other to continue going after the shrinking undergeared/inexperienced population.
Which is an indefensible position cause there is no “gameplay solution” to premades dodging other premades. It’s just a bunch of que manipulation and addon staring. That’s up to blizzard to break the tool they use to do it.
It wouldn’t be the first time they came in to break an addon that was used to mass grief bgs.
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Let’s say you get rid of premades and let’s assume that it doesn’t completely tank the content for lack of participation— that the premade players just love random queue so much that they stick around despite not being able to play the way that they were (even though it’s being proposed that they are such a huge problem that they MUST prefer playing that way to actually playing the content as designed despite it being a much bigger hassle.)
You still have a huge faction imbalance which means more players on one side are party-syncing down. Which means there’s still an unfair advantage, and they can still spawn camp the crap out of you and make it so you can’t even get a single mine cart. The BGs aren’t designed to mitigate this. There’s not enough incentive to play normally and there’s plenty of incentive to use every advantage to get easy honor. Taking away that incentive for easy honor just disincentivizes participation at all.
You can say that premades are the reason people don’t play BGs but look at the facts. Everyone has limited time, and tons of potential uses of that time. Random BGs have the worst rewards of all endgame content, particularly if you lose. That changes if you stack the deck in your favor. Especially if you can speed up the queue by queue syncing.
One very simple solution, that would increase participation and be a net positive for everyone involved, would be to grant rewards equal to heroic dungeons for completing the BG, not just winning. If you play the whole BG you should get a baseline reward that is worth the time put in. Add rewards for participating in the specific objectives, enough to encourage people to play the BG correctly.
At this point in the history of the game, there’s not a lot that needs to be said, so communication is not that much of an advantage outside of calling incoming or marking healers. So increase the amount of tools in the base UI for doing just that.
Design future BGs in a way that discourages spawn camping. Some BGs are fine. You can’t win if you are just camping the enemy graveyard because you need to go do the objectives. But there are other BGs that make it too easy to lock down a whole team at the graveyard and in that case superior firepower is way to great an advantage.
Incorporate mechanics into BGs that celebrate the other combat roles- treat tanks as support and reserve a set number of spots for support. Let tanks be tanky and don’t make them squishy in BGs just because it’s PvP. Make it so that there are reasonable strategies in every BG for any combination of tanks or healers in those support roles.
cross faction bg
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Cross faction is a suboptimal solution for bad design.
It is a solution though. At this point, if they aren’t going to address imbalances or revitalize the overworld there’s no reason to have the factions.
But rest assured, the two faction system was a brilliant solution to some very nagging problems that plagued virtual worlds since MUD. That said, those problems won’t need solutions in this era of wow because it has long since stopped being a virtual world and suffering from its problems (just introducing a plethora of new problems).
I personally will likely stop playing when they get rid of the two faction system. Not for any mechanic reason, but because the factions are a big part of my personal fantasy.
and of course, you link something you didn’t even read because you are just trying to argue…
You’re clearly new to the game…
“premades” are also in non-epics as well. Hence why they all need to go.
So premade vs premade only right? Because if you are just saying full raid queuing allowed into pugs you are insane. EBGs are already suffering, and allowing this into random pugs would 100% kill the bracket completely.
The issue is though even premade vs premade the communities would just keep sync queuing instead of raid queuing anyway.
premade vs premade would be the preferred matchup but that doesn’t mean i think the queue should be completely separated. if there is only one premade in queue it will have to face pugs.
pugs already face premades, it wouldn’t be enabling anything that isn’t already happening in daylight. syncing is a best effort system, and when that effort fails players resort to things like dropping and spying to ensure they get their team in, if you just let them queue as a team in the first place they won’t have to ruin 5 other games trying to get everyone into 1.