Solution for Twinking problem

Okay, so there are a lot of threads here discussing twinks. The problem is obvious, so I won’t go into much detail here for the interest of not derailing this thread before it gets started. Let me simply offer a solution to the problem we all already know exists.

There ought to be two separate brackets, or “modes” for Battlegrounds PvP.

Casual Mode: All players enter the battleground at the same character level, and with the same item level. This puts the focus more on skill rather than gear*. This will allow xp on players to have a more balanced, though likely not perfect experience in battlegrounds. There would still be no way to make poor players better, and that should obviously not be the goal, nor would there be any real way to prevent players from forming a premade and using teamwork to their advantage. All that would be fixed here is the gear level disparity between hardcore players and casual players.

*One point of clarification I’d like to make is that special gear traits would not, nor should be effected by this. So for example, if you have a weapon that has a special proc or ability, or you use a special trinket that gives your character a benefit of some sort, THAT would not be changed, because those sorts of itemizations are often times indicative of players who are intimately familiar with their class mechanics, are a metric of that player’s skill, and aren’t necessarily unavailable to casual players. But being that the general item level and thus stats that each player has would be comparable, such items would likely give a player a slight edge, it would not give those players such an great advantage that they would be unfair. Like I said, it wouldn’t be a “perfect” solution where say everybody goes in with all the same gear, but it’s better than what we have now.

Competitive Mode: Quite the opposite of casual mode, you go in with what you’ve got. Your character level and gear is just as it is out in the world. This would give a place for twink characters to use their gear to it’s absolute maximum potential without being scaled in any way shape or form. For xp on characters that go in at the beginning of their level bracket with quest gear, they’re likely going to get crushed, but 100% that’s on them.

In both cases, all players would be allowed to participate. There would be no need to segregate xp on and off players from one another. Casual players will get what they want, and twink players will still have a place where they can dominate - maybe even moreso than before. In both cases, level brackets would still be implemented. Competitive BG’s however may necessarily need to be restricted to the smaller maps since there would likely be fewer people queuing up for these. But hopefully as more people begin getting into competitive BG play, the possibility of larger maps like AV could be explored. It’d be interesting to see how a highly organized and structured team would accomplish the objectives in competition with another highly organized and structured team. Strategy, tactics, substitutions, and all those things would likely become important.

An added benefit however, will be that with this kind of set up, there’s the potential that a skill based mode will result in competitive PvP guilds scouting out players who are capable of dominating regardless of their gear level, and recruiting them to see what they’re capable of with some gear. The result from there could be the potential for a highly competitive BG system that Blizzard could potentially use to generate more revenue with through esports. This will generate revenue the same way Arena or Dungeon esports do, and (finally) make BG a main focus of the game.

ahem Blizzard do I have your attention yet?
There is potential financial gain for you by using this system.

One last suggestion I have, is that I believe the level brackets should be on a 1-0 basis instead of 0-9 so people who are at the high end of each bracket get the benefit of their respective class abilities and items available at those levels. Due to the fact that we’re looking at an “all other things being equal” situation for casual characters, and a maximum potential situation for competitive players, rather than what we had with there only being one BG system when the 0-9 structure was put in place, I think it’s fair to say that we can go back to that at this point. As it stands, even with what I’ve proposed, on the casual bracket, you’d still potentially be missing out on certain abilities if you went in at a level premature of gaining certain abilities regardless of whether it’s something available at end bracket, or early. For example, hypothetically and generally speaking: If you’re level 52 and you gain an ability at level 55, then you won’t have access to that ability, regardless of whether you’re in casual or competitive play. Obviously, what I’m proposing would already be a challenge to code into the game without trying to give players abilities they shouldn’t have access to yet.

Thoughts?

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Basically separate the players based on their intent or interest for participating in the content at hand. Like allowing players the option to queue and level with minimal exposure to overpowered items and in hind site giving people the opportunity to participate In competition with like minded players. Does that about sum it up?

If so, yeah xpoff should be separated from xpon as that’s exactly what it would be setting up. A platform for casuals to learn and level and a platform for twinks to face other twinks. A lot of words for such a simple solution that’s been brought up thousands of times already. :exploding_head:

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Yes and no, because it wouldn’t be a forced xp on/of separation. So yes, casuals would gravitate more toward the casual playstyle, but they wouldn’t be pigeonholed into it, and the same goes for twink players.

Likely more twink players would play casual than casual play twink, but there could be potential benefit in it for them as well, such as finding players that play well in a team environment, or who are highly skilled at their class that they can try and recruit in order to make their competitive play better. The benefit for casual players going competitive and putting up with their skulls getting caved in would be better experience and honor gains as well as maybe some loot to help them gear up a bit.

Can we stop here… casuals to learn? Heirlooms will simply take the place and actually roflstomp these “casuals learning.” Like I’ve said before a few times, separate the ultra casuals (no heirlooms/quest/dungeon gear players)

To take away the edge or reward for obtaining rare items or bis items is as anti twink as things could be. It was the twinks loudest argument in Legion, to have all of the bells and whistles but unable to use them. I dont think twinks would be more casual, if that were the case they wouldnt have twinked in the first place.

Heirlooms are an easily obtainable resource. It was the preferred gear choice for levelers in legion overall. Overtuned classes/specs aside, heirlooms isnt an out gearing argument as you dont have to farm or do anything special really to obtain it. A bit of gold and you are on your way.

That’s my point. Some people fight for the “new players” who can’t use heirlooms. And full heirlooms and enchants can stand toe to toe against some twinks. Maybe they can buff those up a little more or something. Better than splitting players.

I agree. It is a problem. Something must be done.

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Like I said, put “new players” aka under honor level 30 in their own bracket (like they do at max)

That’s not a bad idea. And it would prompt the trolls to purchase multiple account to remain under determined honor level. I suppose that is a good alternative. Lvl 30 is a bit high though. Should be like 10 or something. That with the legion template back in place and there may be hope yet.

You’re right there, but considering the current system already scales their gear, they’re already somewhat nerfed in a way anyhow. If you made a bracket for that had no scaling whatsoever, their gear would be used to it’s fullest potential. Yes, you’re right and this would be their preferred bracket, and going casual would negate the benefits of their gear, but they wouldn’t permanently be relegated to that mode. You would select which type of BG you wanted to play in on the LFG screen just like you select whether you want a casual, or rated BG.

Twink players may not necessarily like going into casual games, but casual players don’t like them being there either. The point of this solution is to be a compromise that at least satisfactorily accommodates both groups to a reasonable extent, while also potentially giving Blizzard something out of it. Since there would be no strict restriction, either group could play with the other on their terms.

When you have to compromise your ideology of fun you start to ask yoursef is it fun anymore.

Separating the xpon from xpoff allows players to pursue what they enjoy about Battleground PvP. If you want to farm undergeared players you risk leveling out (eliminating said twink from bracket). If you want to twink out with your pvp out you can to your hearts content. And if your aim is to just coast through the leveling process (queue for dungeon and bg while questing) with minimal facerolling then you are taken care of as well.

See no compromise on anyone’s part there. The troll will have to start from scratch to grief levelers, the twinks will beable to compete with other twinks and levelers can play as casual as they want without interfering with the experience of the elitists. Win win for all. The trolls might have to put in a little more time to get what they want but no one is denying them the simple pleasures of melting noobs.

And that’s the point of making all these threads really… you may be right that my suggestion isn’t much different than some of the other suggestions to simply hard segregate players based on whether or not they’re xp on or off, but at least this solution leaves the option open.

The hope here is that Blizzard doesn’t just make the situation worse by doing something that affects other aspects of game play in unexpected or negative ways. To me this just seems like the best compromise all around.

Maybe you’re right, but on the other hand, who knows… maybe they’ll go out into the world and gank questers to get the pleasure of blasting noobs… I don’t see a whole lot of world PvP going on these days, and that’s a sad thing. Then again with war mode, 9 times out of 10 the players they’d be ganking would have it deactivated and wave at them or something.

Man, all this discussion just makes me yearn even more for the Vanilla re-release.

EDIT
I must also be one of those weird people who queue up for BG’s while questing with the objective of not just coasting through, but to do well and smash face. Of course, it doesn’t make sense to gear out an alt with all the best items since that would drain my bank very quickly, so whenever I come against twink players, it just ruins the whole experience for me. For people who don’t care and just want to coast through and level, well… they don’t care. What else is there to say?

The twink situation alone has caused a significant amount of wow players in my gaming circle to unsub. I tried my best to keep them interested but they weren’t having it. It sucks having your gaming buddies ditch you over something so ridiculous as random battlegrounds. But the frustration produced from rendering a player utterly useless and preventing them from playing based on gear/items difference (while leveling and learning the game) is real. No one wants to get frustrated over a game, it stops being fun and they go else where.

From the looks of the forums it’s a shared conclusion and will only get worse as time goes on if left unchecked (nerfing a few OP items and enchants is like putting a band aid on a bullet wound, not a solution).

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A massive overhaul which solely affects the lower brackets is not a little bandaid.
Balancing gear/item/enchants is huge.

Complaints about class/spec and premades will still be very much prevalent.

I refer you to this. This person is absolutely correct in what he posted. Twinks need to be in their own xp off queues. You were involved in that convo as well.

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If you knew I was involved in that conversation, then why would you bother referring me back there?

This idea is different than his, so I decided I’d make my own thread addressing the issue.

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Honor levels do not indicate player pvp ability, skill, or time played before legion.

I skipped most of legion and just got over honor level 30.

I had rival this season before I was honor level 30.

I had all the heirlooms upgraded to 100+ before honor level 30.

If I played more horde I’d probably still be under honor level 30 since I wouldn’t have the alliance bonus.

My point is, if you skipped legion (or any significant part of it) you can be sub honor level 30 and still have heirlooms, twinks, really anything from the other 5+ expansions.

Honor level just means you’ve been pvping since legion. That’s not a good level to scale things at.

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Yea but the “new player” will start at honor level 0. If you’re not new then heirlooms/dungeon gear is enough.

I understand that, but literally any player who didn’t play in legion will have a sub 30 honor level.

This game gets lots of return players, and honor levels are still relatively new.

Putting me in with brand new players in October before I was honor level 30 would not have been fun for them as I would have been as virtually brutal as twinks are currently.

Literally anyone coming back to wow for bfa would not be honor level 30 but could easily be a competent non “new” player.