The proto-drake from making a DK put me at 611 and what’s sad is that’s not even an impressive number anymore with SL adding 213? I think it’s more now. I remember it was shocking when BfA gave us 96 
How then is Classic working out ?
There is literally no avenue for gear progression outside of raiding. There’s not even queued raids like LFR.
Technically the last two points don’t really mean anything
For all we know the partner takes care of all the children responsibilities and the second point stays true because they feel they’re financially dependant and don’t have a choice 
obviously probably not the case at all but having children doesn’t automatically mean responsible time management 
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You don’t trade leisure time with your partner ? My GF skates sundays, I have the kids for 4 hours alone. When I raid, she’s not even alone, I can get up and help her out with things while the guild does trash or we break.
I get maybe for single parents, but then again : that’s a life choice they made.
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Its more i knew a couple where the husband would brag about being married and having a young kid but the reality was he did nothing at all in the household so obviously he had a ton of time to raid despite being a father
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Are Pet battles directly linked to the progression of a character in a combat sense? No. That’s a fallacy of an argument if I’ve ever read one.
Recipe collecting? As in cooking or for other crafting?
Active events are missing. The variance of World Quests as better in BfA/Legion. PvP open world quests are a thing missed from Legion is a good example.
Incursions/invasion events in Legion. BfA had faction incursions in zones.
To add to world content BfA had 2 great options for adding in loot that wasn’t expanded upon. Warfronts and Island Expeditions. There is zero reason that gear, relevant gear couldnt have been included in island expeditions. This could have opened up into new islands with new resources to be farmed with every expansion. Warfronts could be against ever changing enemies as well.
Instead they abandoned them for Torghast…We didnt’ have invasions anymore of any kind. Shadowlands has been a low point in expansion memory for me personally.
- nostalgia
- the ones enjoying it the most are ones that don’t see gear as the end point
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Who the heck would that be ? Nothing fun in the Classic version outside of raiding. And even that’s a stretch.
Literally everyone who is playing wrath classic at level 80 is doing it for the gear. There is no other reason to play the game otherwise.
Keep in mind, we are up to wrath in classic, that aside however:
Classic, BC, and wrath were the days when one could use the content to find their own fun, so while there is nothing fun for you, maybe because you already did it all those years ago, does not mean that others will feel the same.
What I see in retail is more “we don’t want you to have fun unless your idea of fun is the same as ours”, maybe not in the case of players, but the devs. I mean the devs seem to think that M+, raiding, and PvP should be the only avenues for fun or the ways to be able to do content that is fun.
Prove it or admit you can’t and adjust it to most/a majority//etc.
No reason you can see maybe, but maybe one reason people are playing it is because that is a period of the game the remember fondly, it is the time in the game that had their favorite villain as the big bad, or numerous other reasons
Yes, raid or die still very much alive and well.
Such as ?
People like to say that, but when you look at Classic, you see real quick this just isn’t the case. No one is out in Felwood enjoy the green ooze lakes.
How is this different from Classic and even back in the days ? The game always was a sandbox with some Blizzard designed elements.
You can still free roam around Revendreth all you want and enjoy the Gothic architecture. That didn’t reward gear in Vanilla, it’s not going to reward gear now.
No better way to shatter that perception than playing Wrath Classic.
If someone is not raiding in wrath classic, and still playing, they are either still leveling, or will stop playing very soon. The only content that gets added that isn’t a gear progression focused system in the entirety of wrath is the achievement system, and the argent tournament. Otherwise there is LITERALLY nothing else to do aside from raid.
Or PvP I guess.
Yes, which is why I said:
I am not saying that Classic, BC and Wrath did not lack content, just that the content in them was able to be used by players in different ways to find what they considered fun. Maybe because in those days, the immersion was better, maybe because we were better able to use imaginations or feel like we were writing our character/s story/ies. Like one who did the AT things could have been one that saw his character not as a champion going after Arthas and training to do so but as one that was doing the training of others who would.
Also remember, the first reason I listed for classic doing well was nostalgia. So maybe the only consistent players of classic will be as you say, but those who just pick up and play, like I would be, might just be trying to relive those days or see if how things really are as they remember.
All in all, it is just a kind of “one mans trash is another mans treasure” style of argument, maybe you are right, maybe I am, maybe we both are, but anyone that makes blanket claims, no matter which side they are on, just paints themselves as a fool who can’t see beyond their own bubble.
You should have qualified your statement instead of saying “There should be progression for all activities in the game in some manner”
What do you mean by “all activities” ?
Which people are free to set as expectations for their own groups. From my experience this was maybe half or less of Normal groups, and probably half of Heroic groups.
That’s fine and I wasn’t arguing that. I was disagreeing that most people have crippling anxiety when it comes to raiding because there’s no way to know that.
Reputations would like a word.
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I agree. They need to add things like the following for Casual Players:
- Trade System via Ships/Boats across Seas/Oceans
- Gardening/Farming
- Real Housing like FFXIV
- Real Crafting that plays into the Trade System (I know they will be improving it, but I feel it will probably be slightly lacking on gut instinct)
- New Profession for Furniture, Housing Deco
- More Soloable World Content that anyone can join at any time without haveing to manually group, it autogroups you like Rift or FFXIV, It will not only drop gear but crafting items.
- Personable Online/Offline Market Stands in Major Cities in designated areas
- Mount Breeding and Raising
- Another New Profession for creating gear and deco items for Mounts
- Raise Gathering and Profession Cap to 3 each.
- ETC =D
Much Love =D
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who watches your kids while you do your m+ for hours on end? LOOOL. you must be a dad who has a wife who watches kids all day and night. grats. as a mom, I’m sol.
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It’s not that they don’t know. It’s that the answer to our requests was “no”. The entire industry is in a ruinous state right now. Video games are made for the SHAREHOLDERS, not the customers. YOU are part of the product now. Not the target audience. Capitalism is failing. It’s serving the stock market, not the broader free market. YOU aren’t the point anymore. And that should scare you stiff. Right now, it’s just an annoyance because, as much love and blood as I’ve poured into this game, it IS just a toy. And I don’t need it going forward, especially if this is all we can expect from Blizzard.
But now imagine the calamity that awaits when this mentality spreads to OTHER, more necessary markets… We’re in serious trouble, and video games are the canary in the coal mine.
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