No, even that still isn’t the same. Even if Teldrassil still existed, that village is a whole bit of ocean away from the nearest major city, which is still not the heart of Alliance power. Shatterspear Village would be more akin to the Horde maintaining an outpost in Loch Modan; a threat to a major city, sure, but not the seat of power for the entire Alliance and certainly not down the road from the front gates.
Again, you’re missing the point very much. Is this intentional?
Your example was literally Westfall which is a zone away from where Stormwind is. So, yeah Darkshore is the same distance gameplay wise from Darnassus, one zone away.
And you are missing the point, all these lands are as important to the night elves as Durotar would be to the orcs.
Regardless, if the Horde doesn’t want to leave Alliance lands, why should the Alliance give them the same curtesy?
No it isn’t. You don’t take a full size ship from darkshore to Darnassus if it’s the same distance from westfall to stormwind.
No, it was the keep in Elwynn Forest near Westfall.
Important to the night elves is not the same as important to the entire Horde, where their leadership just so happens to be, and their most important location.
You are missing scale. You are missing scope. And you are missing distance.
Courtesy is very different from placing yourself in a position of clear and present threat.
Tiragard is placed in a position that is a clear and present threat to the Horde as an entity. From there, forces can march on the Horde capital.
From Splintertree, the Horde can march to Astranaar. From Shatterspear, the Horde can march on… Something? Neither places the Alliance itself at risk. I know you somehow cannot see the difference, I know this is something you have chosen to pretend is basically the same.
But like… It’s really not the same tho.
Technically that isn’t true either, even if we use the Westfall example. Because the flight path required to get from Teldrassil to Darkshore crosses over the Great Sea, treated as its own zone.
And that’s without even acknowledging that the Elwynn Forst/Westfall border is an easy walk from SW by any means, while using water walking and attempting to cross from Teldrassil to Darkshore takes substantially longer. And takes you through fatigue zones.
My mistake. Still an ocean means nothing to the Horde’s magic defying catapults so I would say Shatterspear is still a danger.
Because it would be important to the Alliance. The entire point of the Alliance is to protect one another. If the Horde were to launch another assault Ashenvale would be one of the easiest targets and would force the entire Alliance to mobilise to its defense. Similar to if the Horde ever got threatened in their own city.
I honestly don’t care. If you want the Alliance to leave Horde lands then do the same and leave Alliance lands. Sounds like a fair deal to everyone, n’est-ce pas?
From Shatterspear they could march and crush Darkshore and Ashenvale and leave the Exodar vulnerable. We played this song and dance in the Fourth War. We saw what happened and how easily the Alliance could be crushed from Kalimdor especially with the help of the Shatterspear.
Pretty sure it isn’t treated as its own zone, at least the part between Teldrassil and Darkshore, and treated as part of those zone depending on where you are.
So… You’re just choosing to ignore all the differences, right? Let’s be honest here; this isn’t some inability to see how different an attack on Ashenvale and an attack on Orgrimmar are. This is a choice you’re making, because I know for a fact you are not too dumb to see the difference.
Because I know that you are very much aware that the two times the Alliance reached the gates of Orgrimmar, it ended a war. No wars ended because of Ashenvale.
It is. The Veiled Sea (I incorrectly called it the Great Sea before) has its own chat channels and everything. It’s labelled as a zone in the game files and behaves like a seperate zone.
Honestly, I don’t care about the difference. For me, the answer is simple, leave Alliance lands and the Alliance will do the same for the Horde. You don’t want Tirigarde in Durotar, fine, leave Ashenvale as well, considering you seem to think its a bigger threat then the Horde being in Ashenvale it sounds more important strategically that it is removed then us having the Horde removed. But I want the same curtesy.
And in both time Tirigarde had little to no influence in it.
Assuming its true it ultimately doesn’t matter considering it was never a hinderance to the Horde managing to destroy Darnassus.
If you don’t care about the differences, then there’s no point discussing matters with you further. You’re choosing to play-act at being willfully ignorant, and I don’t feel like engaging in that.
It does, and I could very easily point out the differences, but you’re doing your play-acting thing.
And Shatterspear Village played no role in Teldrassil burning down, or any of the 4th war because it was gone by then. You’re not only play-acting about not caring about the differences, you’re being entirely dishonest within your play-act.
Actually it did, or rather the people of the village did:
“Yeah, the tribe didn’t do great in the Cata era, but I think the quests then established that a decent number of the survivors joined the Horde. The idea here was that they would be extra useful for this battle because they know that land so well.”-Robert Brooks
The Shatterspear War Camp was also used as forward outposts for the Horde.
As a side note, I am annoyed at how Kalimdor tried to eat its cake and have it too with the ending to the Shatterspear:
Even after the battles for Darkshore, the Shatterspears still chose harmony over bloodshed. They try to honor their bargains with both the night elves and the Horde.
Like, you can’t have both.
If you don’t want the Horde to leave Ashenvale then I hope Tirigarde Keep remains a blight to Durotar for as long as the Horde remains in Ashenvale.
Well, then Tiragarde is even more of an affront. Kul Tirans have engaged in more battles with the Horde than the small tribe of trolls ever did.
But that’s a major difference, so get to play-acting like it doesn’t matter and you cannot see it.
That’s after invading Darkshore. Good job play-acting like that isn’t a huge difference tho.
Zerde, don’t turn yourself into a liar too. You’d be hoping for that regardless of a Horde presence in Ashenvale. You’d point to something like Feralas having a tauren village and scream “exactly the same thing tho!!!”
Don’t pretend you didn’t take your mask off and go full Blue Erevein just now. It’s shameful.
They couldn’t actually invade Darkshore because of wisp wall and it was thanks to the Shatterspear helping Suarfang that he ultimately managed to get though Felwood/get a back entrance to the zone.
Tirigarde cannot be link to the largest massacre of a people in 10,000 years. The Shatterspear can be.
The fact is I haven’t even talked about Feralas and you decided to.
Ok, this time I actually believe you did honestly miss the point.
That makes it even funnier.
No, you decided to make up an imaginary scenario for yourself and the meme fits its perfectly.
I care about Ashenvale because it is literally the main reason the Alliance has been fighting the Horde for almost a generation now. I don’t particularly care about Feralas because it was always a frontier zone for both night elves and taurens and as long as the Horde isn’t attacking Alliance holding their its kinda of a whatever no mans land.
Yes, it actually does make it funnier after your whole play-acting dishonesty bit.
The only dishonesty here is the lack of a response to a reasonable request. If you want the Alliance to leave Horde lands, then do the same and have the Horde leave Alliance lands. Not make up reasons why one is so much more important for the other to leave then the other!
Why are you adding some RP into the mix, where you’re pretending that you are brokering some sort of border dispute on the Story Forums with a Horde diplomat?
Throwing RP into your play-acting Blue Erevein mode dishonest discussion is just doubling down on the weird.
Look. You’re already stated you don’t want to have an honest discussion. Don’t try to salvage things by appealing to my desire for proper fantasy roleplay. My D&D game is tomorrow, and I’m comfortable waiting.
I was initially responding to Gornur, which is if Tirigarde is removed so should the Horde presense in Ashenvale. Nothing more nothing less. That if such a change were to happen ingame then I hope Blizzard gives the Alliance the same curtesy to kick out the Horde.
There is no rp here, just a fervent desire to get the same treatment Horde players want for their side.
Well, I’m sure you can tell the difference between a female blood elf and a male orc avatar, so hopefully you can convince him to roleplay with you. But you might want to be less aggressive, Gornur is a wonderful person, but I don’t even know if he’s into RP.
I can certainly agree to this. I at least have nothing against him.
There was no aggressivity in that. It was a statement. How you chose to interpret that speaks more about yourself then about me.
I didn’t ask him to rp. In fact, aside from that one post I don’t recall him being part of this conversation at all and my response have been mostly to you or Erevien and your dogged determination to find a way to find a reason to think a reasonable request is somehow unjust/unfair.
Oh, your RP has been very aggressive. You literally tried to push it on me uninvited!!
Very bad RP etiquette. Be more courtious next time, okay? (PS: there is an O in courtesy, just FYI. Some RPers are also very offended by spelling mistakes, just trying to be helpful)
Then he is very unlikely to RP Alliance and Horde diplomats with you.
Kohnila is NOT Erevein, Zerde.
You mistook a female blood elf for a male orc.
You mistook a female troll and a male blood elf.
It may be time to see your eye doctor.
This is your RP again.
You cannot request from me a withdrawal of Horde forces froim Ashenvale, because I am not in any position to fulfill such a request. In my RP, Alynsa is just a battle-weary sniper, questioning her loyalty to the Horde and considering retiring from active service. Even if I DID RP with you, this wouldn’t even be the right character to do your diplomat RP with!!
Fairness requires parity. You have to acknowledge the differences in situations to hope to reach parity. You won’t even consider the differences, therefore parity can never be reached.
I hope that helps with your diplomat RP!!