So why is Stormwind allowed to occupy Durotar

No, but it is a start.

Except not only did she double down after becoming a naga, she never once did anything to try and reprend/absolve her of her crimes.

The draenei did not have an actual hand in what the Eredar did. The Horde did and they did it gleefully. if the Horde members had left the moment Garrosh dropped a bomb or Sylvanas burned Teldrassil, I might have respected them more, instead they followed both leaders until it ultimately affected them. If anything they are closer to the Manā€™ari.

You see what Zerde is actually mad about is that the Horde was actually strong enough to endanger the alliance. The mere thought of a group being able to threaten alliance world domination is what partisans hate the most.

Does the tiger call the lion a carnivore here? Erevien, youĀ“re the last person who should say anything in this regard ^^

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Horde is the faction with all the disadvantage so alliance fans are the last people with the right to complain about anything.

I donĀ“t play this foolish game anymore.

you should know better then that. Thats all i want to say to your statement.

Alliance bias is real denial wonā€™t make it go away.

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Accepting the truth of it hasnā€™t made it go away either.

We are stuck with it, regardless of our approach, it seems.

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Because the siutation ainā€™t bad enough yet to make the Horde community go out and collectivley complain about it on a larger scale so far. Which is surprising. I wonder how much damage Blizzard must inflict until people are willing to do something.

Along with the kaldorei who summoned the Legion and caused the sundering, the Eredar directed the Orcish Horde that assaulted Azeroth to begin with.

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And now a small minority of those very same manā€™ari are in the alliance. Sure, itā€™s a repentance thing, but Iā€™m sure the irony isnā€™t lost on most people

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Not out of a hat at all, out of the official timeline. Orcs who didnā€™t participate in the first and second wars would have been a very very small minority in Thralls Horde that early on.

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Lore (at least at that time) is that orcs reach adulthood by age 12. That leaves four to five yearsā€™ worth of young adult orcs to be born in the camps and probably a couple more years of ā€œnot quite adult but old enough to go on the expeditionā€ orcs. I find your 80% veterans figure to be unlikely.

Iā€™m sorry, are you implying that Thrall intended for his new organization to go out and commit genocide just because he didnā€™t change the name? Thatā€™s some weird rhetorical sleight-of-hand.

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This would have been the most educated position for Daelin to take.

Again, pulling it out of your hat.

Thrall was a baby, born on Azeroth, during Year One. Thereā€™s no reason to think he was the sole child born during that time, and heā€™d be 20-22 by the founding of Orgrimmar. Additionally, we know children of ambiguous were brought through the Dark Portal at some point before it was deactivated to settle the new lands the orcs thought they had. Those children would, of course, grow up.

If your assumption were correct, Thrall founded Orgrimmar with nothing but older orcs in what? Their 40s? Not exactly a peak fighting force, nor how the typical orc soldiers were presented in WCIII.

Itā€™s more plausible that Thrall wasnā€™t the anomaly, that other young orcs joined his cause along with the older ones, and your ā€œ80% 1st and 2nd war vetsā€ figure is pure head canon.

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Oh yeah, good point. There could easily have been orcs born during the 6 years of the second war.

Eh. I donā€™t have a problem with Daelin thinking he was right from his POV.

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Not in a concentration camp, the situation that Thrall was found was pretty exceptional, I highly doubt humans were just finding droves of Orphaned orcs on the ground like Blackmoore did with thrall.

Itā€™s a lot more believable than it being entirely 12-16 year olds who have little to no combat experience at all, but also they wouldnā€™t have all been 40, Orcs reach maturity younger than humans, so they could have been around 16 at the start of the first and second wars making them in their early 30s, which is a pretty normal age.

Idk about Zerde but this is the only thing Iā€™ve been arguing about. Is that calling Daelin a racist is pretty silly, and implies that he had little to no reasons to hate and fear a reformed Horde.

It is possible to have reasons to hate and still be a racist.

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The Horde as a political entity responsible for the atrocities committed in the first and second war, and orcs, would be one in the same to someone in universe at that time.

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He could see it that way and think he was right, but we can still say from an outside perspective that he was racist and wrong.

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Yes, but not because he was born. It was exceptional because he was orphaned, hidden under piles of bodies. Youā€™re working from a faulty assumption that all orc babies must also be orphaned which isā€¦ Yeah, a further reach than your 80% mark.

And thankfully, as I just explained, thereā€™s a whole 20 year timeframe those orcs could have been born in. So 12 to 20. Not even remotely a bad age range for orcs.

For humans who reach maturity much later than orcs, maybe. Probably not for shorter-lived, quicker-maturing orcs. And especially for orcs who would have, in your scenario, already gone through a whole war, then followed it up with some very long-term withdrawal symptoms.

And again, this isnā€™t the type of force portrayed in WCIII.

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