Statistical outliers in specific special circumstances competing with what everyone else does in normal circumstances as an average is not even remotely equivalent.
This would be like bringing a Corolla to the drag strip, shoving a 150 shot of Nitrous on it and then saying “See Corollas are just as fast as Lambos”.
He did post both the 95th percentile and all percentile charts. Its too early to have a definitive take, but BMs are slowly coming back, getting nerfed, ane people naturally will react by trying other specs. Its inarguable the MM teir is jacked, and rapid volley is actually fun. I think we will see an actual regression to the mean, where all 3 specs sre performing well but not way ahead, and personally, thats right where it should be.
Dont get me wrong the set bonuses are hella fun but when I get a 90% pass and someone 10 ilvls lower than me with the same DPS gets a 70% pass for the same fight its pretty clear its not making up the difference.
Also while he does show all percentiles at Mythic level thats 333 parses for MM Hunters vs thousands to tens of thousands for other classes.
Drop it to Heroic where there is more statistical data than just a handful of outliers and:
Or for Mythic+ All keys:
20 keys:
25 Keys:
There are definitely classes that are OP. Im just saying the nerfs havent even kicked in yet for BM, and MM can be dependent on other factors as well. I just think BM will fall back a bit, while the actual user count of MM will go up because of BM being nerfed, so the numbers will look different acouple weeks from now, and they will be much more comparable.
Could be wrong. Persoanlly i dont have a dog in the fight, but i like to see a class have specs that perform within range, just feels better than being shoehorned into a spec because of performance and nothing else (personally i love MM and cant stand playing BM, and wouldn’t switch even when its so much better.)
Yeah definitely need more data and once they fix the Aug damage attribution and the BM nerf kicks in we will see.
And Im the same, I love MM dont really like BM at all.
Considering statistics don’t matter.
Literally doesn’t matter. We are talking about the potential of the spec not how many people are playing it.
Heroic parses are irrelevant as the majority of the player base isn’t good and fight data is skewed because you have short fights and long fights.
I proved you wrong by showing that MM isn’t “D tier” and at the bottom like you claimed.
Terrible analogy is terrible.
The fact is that MM is 3rd in the raid at 95th percentile and 4th in all percentiles in mythic which is what matters.
That means the spec is 100% playable and 100% above D tier and no where close to the bottom like you claimed.
Take your L man.
The whole discussion is because of him making the claim that MM would be bottom of the charts and the evidence shows him wrong.
I agree once BM needs kick in there might be more people going back to MM.
But the number of parses don’t matter. We were discussing the potential of the specs.
So the literal numbers from the game don’t matter when talking about the numbers from the game. Rofl that’s certainly a take.
Wait so the numbers do matter?
Oh wait now they do matter again but also don’t matter but this time because they just don’t count apparently?
Also you can adjust for that by showing the 95th percentile of Heroic which excludes the bads and carries.
Wait now they count again but only the one outlier that you think backs you up and all other data that proves that to be an anomaly and not representative doesn’t count.
ROFL there is cognitive dissonance, goalpost shifting and wilful ignorance and then there is whatever hell that like of dribble is.
Look I get it, you’re in waaaay over your head and statistics are hard - it’s OK to just not understand things you don’t have to pretend like they don’t matter or mean anything to justify it.
Sure if you have no idea how statistics work or how to understand what you are looking at I can definitely see how you reached that conclusion. My analogy is exactly what those numbers show but again, because it’s clear you have no idea what you are looking at it makes perfect sense that would be your conclusion.
OK I’m going to spell this out for you as simply as I can:
The fact that MM is weak across the board means that when they DO show up in extreme high level content it’s in small numbers - exactly as the statistics show - because they are required to be executed perfectly and the group’s makeup is funneling cooldowns towards those Hunters because they have them to spare.
What you are looking at it the potential of MM Hunter when buffed and pushed to it’s hardcore cheesed numbers upper limits vs normal numbers for every other class.
So sure if your group makeup is able to funnel PI, Ebon Might, etc at a perfectly itemised Hunter it can perform at the same level as other classes playing normally. Which again is exactly like my analogy.
But take that away and that’s not the case.
Ok I am actually going to correct you and spell it out for you.
Considering MM isnt weak. You cant be weak and in the top 5 for dps rankings in both 95th and all percentiles.
Like every other spec at that level?
This is very common in mythic raid guilds.
What we are looking at is the specs potential when played correctly.
That means when played correctly the spec is performing well.
Just because a majority of people arent playing it or arent good at it doesnt mean its D tier.
You are 100% wrong.
Like every other spec? O wait You could have a point if it wasnt the same at all percentiles.
You are just embarrassing yourself at this point.
All this statement does is show a fundamental lack of understanding of what you are looking at. Take the top 333 of every other class and remove all the others and their percentiles will also look the same.
The entire point is that the small number of MM and thus the entire percentile range is made up almost exclusively of top percentile players. The mid percentile players aren’t getting invites because the mid percentile is so far to the left. Look at how much MM drops off compared to others as the percentiles go down - that’s what that is showing.
No, not like other specs because if you look at specifically lower percentiles which are representing less than perfect play MM Hunter drops off extremely heavily compared to others.
Now this COULD indicate it’s just extremely difficult to play correctly and the DPS loss is more punishing for less than perfect play except the all percentiles is still to the right and given such a small sample size it means that the high numbers are exceptional players only and the low numbers likely early deaths or where they didn’t get/couldn’t utilise the funnelled buffs for whatever reason.
And? The point is not every class is getting that and the sudden massive damage drop off relative to other classes as the percentiles goes down indicates it’s a requirement to be competitive at all - take it away and give just a normal amount of buffs and you do unacceptably low damage vs other classes which fall in between naturally.
So you GENUINELY believe that Hunters are magically either absolutely terrible players or absolutely perfect players with nothing between those points and the only class/spec combination in the game with this trait? Because that’s the only way what you are claiming makes sense and if that WAS somehow true it would still be an indicator that MM is broken.
It also requires ignoring all other content and statistics across the game AND also requires ignoring a lack of data at the higher end.
This is a pointless discussion because you simply don’t know how to interpret statistics and nothing will convince you otherwise because you don’t know what you don’t know.
It also doesn’t matter because the hard numbers and reality continue to exist and remain true even if you don’t understand them despite how confident you are in your mathematically incorrect conclusions.
Congrats, irony top score achieved.
I understand what I am looking at.
Percentile range doesnt matter. We are talking about WHAT THE SPEC IS CAPABLE OF.
When played correctly MM is in the top 5 dps in the raid.
You said it would be at the bottom.
Its not
You are wrong.
How much it drops off because people arent/cant play it is irrelevant.
I literally linked you all percentiles in mythic and it was 4th highest dps in the raid. Do you even know what you are looking at?
Good players do fine damage.
Bad players dont.
Considering hunter is one of the most popular classes in the game? Yes.
Its ignored because we are talking about how well a spec is doing. You base how a spec is performing based on the spec being played properly.
Heroic logs dont matter
Normal logs dont matter
LFR logs dont matter
The fact that you still cant understand that we are talking about a specs positioning based on its tuning now because You and others cant maximize it.
The real irony is how you claimed MM would be bottom of the damage rankings and its in top 5 in both 95th percentile and ALL percentiles.
this is painful to read and shows once again how wow players have room temp IQs at best
LOL look believe whatever makes you feel good, you do you. Some people believe in invisible friends, some believe everything is a conspiracy, you believe whatever it is you think is happening, go for it.
It’s not required that you understand and I’d thinking you’re right and “winning” make you feel good then whatever.
As I said it’s a pointless discussion because you do not know what you are looking at and are impervious to explanation or learning so I may as well be explaining quantum physics to an amoeba.
So here you go “Yes you won you are so smart and definitely the true statistics expert for real real - you can now rest in your superiority”.
Lol
Sounds like a lot of cope on your part because you were proven wrong.
The sheer fact you’re tripling down on MM being bad this tier and the numbers showing the opposite is hilarious.
The fact you even need to try and throw insults in an attempt to look smarter means you lost right there.
You said MM would be D Tier.
It’s currently in the top 5 performing specs.
That’s not D tier which means you are wrong.
You never made any specifications on what level or parse percentile. Because even if you had you would STILL be wrong.
More petty insults because you were proven wrong is sad at this point.
Whatever you say buddy whatever makes you feel good then 100% that.
What would I know in the face of such a master statistician as yourself.
I feel great no matter if you admit the L or not.
Flattery won’t change the outcome.
As I said whatever you say buddy.