So which is the hunter spec for this patch?

[Wrathlon-saurfang (Wrathlon)]

I was talking about the nerf from 10.1.7 to 10.2 due to the Windrunners Guidance change. I clarified this multiple times.

Again:

I was talking about the nerf from 10.1.7 to 10.2 due to the Windrunners Guidance change. I clarified this multiple times.

And a third time for good luck that maybe it will sink in:

I was talking about the nerf from 10.1.7 to 10.2 due to the Windrunners Guidance change. I clarified this multiple times.

[Snozo-area-52]

@Wrathlon-saurfang

I was talking about the nerf from 10.1.7 to 10.2 due to the Windrunners Guidance change. I clarified this multiple times.

I never brought that up. You did.

You used it as an example to discredit my statement.

Again try to keep up.

[Wrathlon-saurfang (Wrathlon)]

Yes because it was a significant nerf and I was pointing that part out. Which it is.

Even if we are still strong enough with the nerf the nerf still exists and feels bad.

Why is this such a complicated concept to grasp for you?

[Heliôs-frostmourne]

not to mention mm st still looks absolutely abysmal

[Snozo-area-52]

@Wrathlon-saurfang

Yes because it was a significant nerf and I was pointing that part out. Which it is.

Which is irrelevant. The nerf doesn’t change MMs B status which was the entire point of the thread.

“Feels bad” doesn’t change the information OP was asking for.

@Wrathlon-saurfang

Even if we are still strong enough with the nerf the nerf still exists and feels bad.

It’s still irrelevant to the entire purpose of the thread.

@Wrathlon-saurfang

Why is this such a complicated concept to grasp for you?

I’m not the one struggling to understand anything.

[Snozo-area-52]

@Heliôs-frostmourne

not to mention mm st still looks absolutely abysmal

I’m not disputing that and hopefully it gets tuned up.

[Wrathlon-saurfang (Wrathlon)]

Youre not disputing that yet that is exactly what I pointed out and you said I was wrong.

ROFL OK.

[Snozo-area-52]

I said you were wrong because you were pointing out something that was irrelevant.

[Wrathlon-saurfang (Wrathlon)]

So MM ST damage being garbage is irrelevant? the DPS of a DPS class is irrelevant?

[Snozo-area-52]

@Wrathlon-saurfang

So MM ST damage being garbage is irrelevant?

When the OP is asking about spec status and even with the poor ST it’s still B tier

Yes it’s irrelevant.

[Wrathlon-saurfang (Wrathlon)]

Well you heard it here first folks - the DPS of a DPS is irrelevant.

[Snozo-area-52]

Here you are reaching and deflecting again.

The game isn’t pure ST.

[Wrathlon-saurfang (Wrathlon)]

I never made that claim, I simply pointed out our ST was nerfed. I even specifically said “In AoE its probably great but in ST we were nerfed”

This is a factual statement.

You said its somehow wrong.

You then said you agree with it.

Then you said its wrong because its irrelevant.

Now youre saying you agree but it doesnt matter because its not all ST.

Anywhere else youd like to move the goal posts?

[Snozo-area-52]

@Wrathlon-saurfang

Anywhere else youd like to move the goal posts?

I haven’t moved the goalposts once.

Let me simplify this for you.

I said all three specs are looking strong.

You then used your st sims on a spec that’s niche is three target burst cleave to complain about MM being bad.

You have been wrong this entire thread on this alone.

Every point you try to refute with is literally irrelevant to my original statement.

There is a reason why you keep resorting to personal insults. It’s because you haven’t been able to refute the original point.

[Heliôs-frostmourne]

@Snozo-area-52

I said all three specs are looking strong.

This is still a weird statement to make when in the video that you linked mm is placed a full tier below sv and bm and below a lot of specs.

[Wrathlon-saurfang (Wrathlon)]

OK because you are clearly VERY lost let me go through the posts in order and break down this thread for you.

You said:

@Snozo-area-52

I said all three specs are looking strong.

OK I disagreed with your assertion that all 3 are strong by saying this:

@Wrathlon-saurfang

What game are you playing?

I said this because MM was dragging up the rear by a decent margin by all reports on PTR and oh hey look at the raid logs since 10.2:

Damage Statistics - Mythic Aberrus, the Shadowed Crucible | Warcraft Logs

This is mirrored in Mythic raid and we are only just off the bottom in normal raid. “Literally the bottom” is a funny definition of strong. THAT is why I disagreed with that statement. If you have a different measure of what you call strong then you do you.

The someone else that wasnt you said this:

@Doggidude-aerie-peak

I believe MM is quite a bit better with tier set from 10.2 raid

And I replied to THEM not YOU:

@Wrathlon-saurfang

In AoE maybe but in ST I went from 148k Sim to 127k Sim with 10.2 courtesy of the changes to Wind Arrow procs.

Which is a factually correct statement. He asked a few questions, I clarified it and someone else chimed in to say I must have done something wrong with Single Target sims because the Rapidfire set bonus should be a buff:

@Jagoram-tichondrius

you did something wrong, with that reworked tierset with RF, our single target for MM will be stronger then it was in 10.2, its not even a question, its a RF dmg buff and basically double tap baked into rapid fire.

I replied with exactly how I tested it and pointed out that sadly, its still an overall nerf even with that:

@Wrathlon-saurfang

Just took my exact gear that was simming at 148k, swapped out only the 4 tier pieces for the new set and set them to the same ilvl so the only difference is basically the set bonus.

Using my old ST build I was still down 17k DPS.
Using the new builds on Icy Veins which are both about equal Im still down 8k DPS.

No matter how you spin it, we were nerfed significantly with that Wind Arrow/Trueshot proc change.

And then you started chiming in by picking a single part and acting like all the other parts of my post didnt exist and went off on a ridiculous insane double down of nonsense for crap that wasnt a response to you, was not in reply to anything you said and when I repeatedly clarified that and pointed out SPECIFICALLY what I was talking about you just kept on going like the worlds dumbest energiser bunny just going and going and going.

Nobody was even talking to you, you inserted yourself into the middle of some other discussion going “HuRr DuRr U R WrOnG” about stuff that wasnt even in relation to anything you said.

And amusingly, as those stats show, I was actually right about that too anyway.

Also your source of me being wrong, Azorthian, said himself that the Windrunners Guidance change was a significant single target nerf.

You might want to scroll up and re-read this whole thread again because you are obviously VERY lost.

[Snozo-area-52]

@Heliôs-frostmourne

This is still a weird statement to make when in the video that you linked mm is placed a full tier below sv and bm and below a lot of specs.

Depends on viewpoint.

The tier list is overall and while MM may not be as strong as BM or SV it’s not WW or SPriest status either.

It’s also not behind enough to a point where someone asking this question is going to be penalized in a higher end setting by only playing MM so they ideally can just play the spec they want.

[Snozo-area-52]

@Wrathlon-saurfang

I said this because MM was dragging up the rear by a decent margin by all reports on PTR and oh hey look at the raid logs since 10.2:

What? A spec with poor ST isn’t doing well in a raid that’s mostly ST? The horror!

@Wrathlon-saurfang

This is mirrored in Mythic raid and we are only just off the bottom in normal raid. “Literally the bottom” is a funny definition of strong. THAT is why I disagreed with that statement. If you have a different measure of what you call strong then you do you.

The someone else that wasnt you said this:

Because we are talking about 10.2 not 10.0-10.7

Stop using intellectual dishonesty to try and refute points.

@Wrathlon-saurfang

Also your source of me being wrong, Azorthian, said himself that the Windrunners Guidance change was a significant single target nerf.

Again I never said the change wasn’t a nerf. My entire argument has been All three specs are playable in Amirdrassil.

You haven’t even tried refuting that outside of using ST sims and raid logs from a ST heavy raid.

[Wrathlon-saurfang (Wrathlon)]

@Snozo-area-52

What? A spec with poor ST isn’t doing well in a raid that’s mostly ST? The horror!

Yeah so you ARE aware that Amirdrassil is predominantly Single Target damage too right?

@Snozo-area-52

Because we are talking about 10.2 not 10.0-10.7

Yes, thats why that entire paragraph was referring to 10.2 content and shows logs from 10.2 because I am also talking about 10.2

@Snozo-area-52

Stop using intellectual dishonesty to try and refute points.

Congratulations on your irony world record.

@Snozo-area-52

Again I never said the change wasn’t a nerf. My entire argument has been All three specs are playable in Amirdrassil.

Aside from all the times where that was the only thing I was saying and you responded with “Wrong” but sure, whatever we agree its a nerf, great.

@Snozo-area-52

You haven’t even tried refuting that outside of using ST sims and raid logs from a ST heavy raid.

Yeah pretty sure using ST sims and logs from a ST heavy raid right before we head into a new ST heavy raid is pretty relevant.

And before you go off YES I am completely aware it has more AoE than the last raid, but that still doesnt change the reality we are dragging up the rear.

Im not debating whether we are ABLE to come and do “good enough”, sure, we obviously can, I dont think any class has ever been so bad they literally cant come at all. But thats also not what I was saying, I was saying we arent STRONG. Which we are not. Adequate? Maybe, strong? No.

Its much like our new raid buff - is it better than nothing? Sure, is it good? LOL no.

Except on Council, I bet on council we do amazing once we have 4 piece.

[Snozo-area-52]

@Wrathlon-saurfang

Yes, thats why that entire paragraph was referring to 10.2 content and shows logs from 10.2 because I am also talking about 10.2

In a 10.1 raid with every fight being ST but one.

Obviously MM isn’t going to do well.

@Wrathlon-saurfang

Congratulations on your irony world record.

The only irony here is your attempts to refute my statement and still being unable too even though you keep trying.

You’re keeping me very entertained during my osha 10 training.

@Wrathlon-saurfang

And before you go off YES I am completely aware it has more AoE than the last raid, but that still doesnt change the reality we are dragging up the rear.

Dragging up the rear of a ST fight. Not every spec is going to excel in all fight types.

You play a pure.

@Wrathlon-saurfang

Im not debating whether we are ABLE to come and do “good enough”, sure, we obviously can, I dont think any class has ever been so bad they literally cant come at all. But thats also not what I was saying, I was saying we arent STRONG. Which we are not. Adequate? Maybe, strong? No.

Thanks for finally agreeing with me.