So when will xp off/on be merged again?

[Dugrumak-bonechewer]

Hopefully never. The less mechanics players can abuse to bully other players the better.

[Kanstilxd-tichondrius]

“how dare the other players play the game differently to get a power advantage at a level other than 120!!!”

[Dugrumak-bonechewer]

Formulaic and boring sarcasm, yawn.

Yes, they play the game differently than intended in order to gain a power advantage over players who are just looking for some casual PvP while they level. It’s the equivalent of a 22 year old high school football player who takes steroids and just refuses to graduate. Playing “differently” for sure lmao

[Demonsocks-stormreaver (Demonsocks)]

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

Yes, they play the game differently than intended in order to gain a power advantage over players who are just looking for some casual PvP while they level.

I was just looking for some casual PVP at 120 and got annihilated. Please defend me.

[Dugrumak-bonechewer]

@Demonsocks-stormreaver

I was just looking for some casual PVP at 120 and got annihilated. Please defend me.

You don’t twink at max level. Good one, tho.

[Sockfullafel-stormreaver]

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

You don’t twink at max level. Good one, tho.

I didn’t ask to twink at max level (which I do actually lmao look at my gear).

I asked to do some casual PVP and I get wrecked by tryhards.

[Dugrumak-bonechewer]

@Sockfullafel-stormreaver

I didn’t ask to twink at max level (which I do actually lmao look at my gear).

You don’t twink at max level because a twink is an optimized sub-max level character…

[Kanstilxd-tichondrius]

good ole sock, I have missed you does you twinking at 120 work with scaling?? if so… would be kinda fun to get my lock from 110 up to 120

[Sockfullafel-stormreaver]

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

You don’t twink at max level because a twink is an optimized sub-max level character…

I wouldn’t try to get into the definitions of twink. It will give you some bad google image results.

But you’re avoiding my question and are obviously not going to give any good answer so I’ll just leave you be.

@Kanstilxd-tichondrius

good ole sock, I have missed you does you twinking at 120 work with scaling??

This gear is great for timewalking, but not PVP.

I’ve been playing a few games on my lock at 110, should hit 111 in a dozen or so games.

[Dugrumak-bonechewer]

@Sockfullafel-stormreaver

But you’re avoiding my question and are obviously not going to give any good answer so I’ll just leave you be.

What question?

[Shilindria-darkspear (Shilindria)]

I think Sock is referring to the fact that PvP is PvP regardless of character level. So why is it a good thing for twinks to be removed from the general population when geared 120s are free to run roughshod over undergeared 120s in BGs?

The disparity between a twink vs leveler is nowhere near as large as a fresh 120 vs a geared 120. Why is 120 PvP held to a different standard when the principle is the same?

Those who have more gear should be more powerful. Its up to blizz to properly balance the outliers for all brackets. Instead of the lazy method of blanket removal…guess which one they did

[Dugrumak-bonechewer]

@Shilindria-darkspear

So why is it a good thing for twinks to be removed from the general population when geared 120s are free to run roughshod over undergeared 120s in BGs?

Because most of the people the twink faces cannot reasonably be expected to have gear; they are just PvPing for fun while they level up. It is completely unreasonable to expect them to seek out the most optimized BiS gear for each level bracket in order to compete with twinks who have turned leveling off.

This is why twinks do what they do - because they know the majority of opponents they face are “just passing through” and will not be taking the time to gear up for each level bracket. This provides the twink with opportunities for easy bullying, and then they can come fap on the forums while reading people whine.

At 120 the expectation is that while there will be power gaps, all players are now working on acquiring the gear to close that gap.

Simply put, a twink is like an 18 year old athlete who plays against middle schoolers and refuses to move on. Yes, he has an advantage. No one disputes that. That’s the point.

@Shilindria-darkspear

The disparity between a twink vs leveler is nowhere near as large as a fresh 120 vs a geared 120.

Debatable.

@Shilindria-darkspear

Those who have more gear should be more powerful.

I don’t think anyone’s disputing that.

[Shilindria-darkspear (Shilindria)]

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

Simply put, a twink is like an athlete who learns how to play the game. The levelers are just people who want a participation trophy. Yes, he has an advantage. No one disputes that. That’s the point .

Fixed that for you.

[Dugrumak-bonechewer]

That’s cute, just ignore my entire post and then rewrite something I wrote to make it incorrect and then say “fixed”.

[Beijixiong-stormrage]

@Sockfullafel-stormreaver

I wouldn’t try to get into the definitions of twink. It will give you some bad google image results.

Hey now, the results could be pretty great for some.

[Shilindria-darkspear (Shilindria)]

Alright I will look at that very insightful post of yours.

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

Because most of the people the twink faces cannot reasonably be expected to have gear; they are just PvPing for fun while they level up. It is completely unreasonable to expect them to seek out the most optimized BiS gear for each level bracket in order to compete with twinks who have turned leveling off.

So the expectation is to enter BGs using outdated gear with no enchants and expect to do well? As for the most optimized BiS gear, so if I lock XP but do not have BiS gear I should be able to do do BGs - yet I can’t due to this change.

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

This is why twinks do what they do - because they know the majority of opponents they face are “just passing through” and will not be taking the time to gear up for each level bracket. This provides the twink with opportunities for easy bullying, and then they can come fap on the forums while reading people whine.

Is it too much to expect people to go the AH every 8 levels or so to update gear, or look for other means to have relevant gear - such as dungeons or quests? How would you know why twinks “do what they do”? Maybe they hate endgame BfA where they have to juggle essences/corruptions/gear just to stay relevant vs running a few dungeons or raids.

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

At 120 the expectation is that while there will be power gaps, all players are now working on acquiring the gear to close that gap.

How do you know they are working on closing the gap? Until the gap is closed are you fine with being fodder for the dragonslayers?

As for - The disparity between a twink vs leveler is nowhere near as large as a fresh 120 vs a geared 120 = Debatable

You must be on meds to believe that. The power creep at 120 is disgusting.

One last question. What standard do you use to define whether one is a twink or not? Compared to someone who just started the game those with heirlooms are twinks, so should those people also be separated from the general populous?

[Dugrumak-bonechewer]

@Shilindria-darkspear

So the expectation is to enter BGs using outdated gear with no enchants and expect to do well?

Well there’s a couple issues with what you said here. The first is the whole “outdated gear” bit. Both twinks and the people leveling up are using “outdated gear”. There’s different ways of breaking it down, but overall, everyone under level 120 is using “outdated gear”.

As far as “expecting to do well” - The twink is expecting to enter the BG with their gear and “do well”, because their gear is better than the majority of players in the BG. Other people are also expecting to enter the BG with their gear and “do well” - and for the average player, when I say “do well” I mean perform around the statistical average for their level range.

The difference is, however, that the twink expects to “do well” because they have rigged the game in their favor and is preying on other players’ expectations of a more or less level playing field of characters decked out in quest gear.

Again, it’s like that one kid who keeps getting held back a grade and bullies people 2 years younger than himself.

@Shilindria-darkspear

Is it too much to expect people to go the AH every 8 levels or so to update gear, or look for other means to have relevant gear

Yes. It actually is. An entire 80 man bg should not be expected to do all that just because the 1 twink who might be there thinks they should slow down their leveling process in order to compete with him.

@Shilindria-darkspear

Maybe they hate endgame BfA where they have to juggle essences/corruptions/gear just to stay relevant vs running a few dungeons or raids.

Twinks have existed since before BfA.

@Shilindria-darkspear

How do you know they are working on closing the gap? Until the gap is closed are you fine with being fodder for the dragonslayers?

Because just playing the game normally the gap will be closed. You get gear just from doing BGs, and then you also get a weekly cache for it. If you run a dungeon you get gear. Basically doing what there is to do at endgame will gear you up and close the gap. It’s also a reasonable expectation.

@Shilindria-darkspear

What standard do you use to define whether one is a twink or not?

The actual definition of twink. Hierloom gear is not twinking because the expectation behind it is that high level players will be giving it to their lower level characters. That’s the intention behind it.

[Okayboomie-dethecus]

where was the twink hate during legion while xp on/off was merged? the entire time korraks revenge was an option you were being carried by twinks. not a peep.

[Shilindria-darkspear (Shilindria)]

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

Well there’s a couple issues with what you said here. The first is the whole “outdated gear” bit. Both twinks and the people leveling up are using “outdated gear”. There’s different ways of breaking it down, but overall, everyone under level 120 is using “outdated gear”.

100% wrong, Outdated meaning for that a character of that level it is weak. Some people even go into BGs in the 40+ brackets completely missing gear such as rings etc.

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

to enter the BG with their gear and “do well” - and for the average player, when I say “do well” I mean perform around the statistical average for their level range.

A statistical average indicated by what?

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

The difference is, however, that the twink expects to “do well” because they have rigged the game in their favor and is preying on other players’ expectations of a more or less level playing field of characters decked out in quest gear.

Getting gear is rigging the game? Doesn’t everyone have access to dungeons and the AH to get gear. So if twinks are the ones “rigging the game” then the lvlers are the ones “intentionally handicapping” themselves. In some brackets the quest gear is BiS so I don’t know what you are talking about.

@Dugrumak-bonechewer

Again, it’s like that one kid who keeps getting held back a grade and bullies people 2 years younger than himself.

This statement is not even remotely close to correct. A more apt description would be; it’s like that one kid who exercises and eats a balanced diet being ostracized due to his classmates sitting on the couch and eating cheetos.

You still have not defined what a twink is. The blanket removal of anyone with locked XP is not a viable response. Many of my lower level toons were not even remotely BiS. They were just heirlooms and some random junk from the AH yet now they are unable to do battlegrounds.

[Dugrumak-bonechewer]

@Shilindria-darkspear

Outdated meaning for that a character of that level it is weak.

I think the word you’re looking for is “sub-optimal”. I don’t think it’s reasonable nor fair to expect every player who wishes to do BGs while leveling to spend the time and effort to go out of their way seek out optimal gear for each bracket in order to justify the few people who twink. This is applying an unreasonable and unfair set of standards and expectations on a majority in order to excuse a minority.

@Shilindria-darkspear

A statistical average indicated by what?

Your question doesn’t make sense.

@Shilindria-darkspear

Getting gear is rigging the game?

Don’t try to be dishonest here. Twinks go out of their way to get the best gear for their bracket and then purposefully avoid leveling. Most people don’t do that - otherwise we wouldn’t have the term “twink”.

@Shilindria-darkspear

This statement is not even remotely close to correct. A more apt description would be; it’s like that one kid who exercises and eats a balanced diet being ostracized due to his classmates sitting on the couch eating cheetos.

This is not a correct series of statements. Battlegrounds are PvP. That’s players vs players. There is no “vs” implied in your analogy of “classmates”.

A more apt analogy would be an athlete who takes steroids in order to compete in the local town rugby match and then says “well you can take steroids too. It’s not my fault you’re handicapping yourself by not taking steroids.”

I mean that is literally what a twink is. A professional, serious participant beating the snot out of casuals - in a way that is not intended nor endorsed by the devs nor the majority of the playerbase - and you’re here blaming the casuals.

Very dishonest and unfair discourse from you. Do better.

@Shilindria-darkspear

You still have not defined what a twink is. The blanket removal of anyone with locked XP is not a viable response. Many of my lower level toons were not even remotely BiS. They were just heirlooms and some random junk from the AH yet now they are unable to do battlegrounds.

I think the fact that the changes in WoTLK to the way players are matched up killed twinking for a while really makes the entire case that twinking is about having an unfair advantage. Twinking all but died when it was changed so that twinks could only match with other twinks.