i’m not even sure what you’re trying to say here. i am quite aware that this is ‘what spriest has always done’, because spriest (along with balance druid and affliction warlock, two other specs who aren’t doing great right now, surprise surprise!) utilize ramp-up playstyles. what i’m saying is without directly saying it (but i guess some need to be spoonfed the info, evidently) that the ramp-up damage playstyle is struggling in the current season. and your estimation of globals needed to get everything up doesn’t at all mean that our (complete lack) of frontloaded damage equals the more favorable specs these days.
i’m completely aware spriest isn’t ‘fine’, because they’re not, hence the post, lol. but hey, in classic wow forums fashion you just had to throw in the ‘yOu ShOuLdn’T bE iN tHe KeY.’ and good thing you pointed it out before i did that you’re not playing the spec, and i wonder why that is!? (unless you need me to break it down it for you in the simplest most understandable terms possible, again.)
I’m saying it struggles in low key in every season.
If your complaint is ‘ramp up isn’t good in the lower keys’ then yes. That is a thing that has existed since the inception of M+. If your class is a ramp class that is given 0 time to ramp, then they’re not usable in low keys once players are geared enough to blast the mobs down in a few seconds. But it’s just a part of ramp design.
You were provided a very high key example. But that example holds for +16-+20s, too unless you’re playing with players that are EXTREMELY geared or something - but 5s of ramp time is very possible in mid level keys.
You have a video. You only have to watch the first pull. Once the mobs are grouped, the spriest casts an extra VE (which honestly was only needed BECAUSE the mobs would live - if it was a low key and expectation is that the group would die, you’d move into burst) then as soon as Vtorr is cast, they climb above the tank, and after that their MB and SW:D casts bring them in line with the other DPS.
Because it isn’t fun to me - and I just took 3 weeks off of keys for holiday. I’m not really concerned about Spriest damage. More that I won’t have the utility of other specs and the playstyle isn’t fun enough for me to ignore that.
You quote that like it’s some kind of condemnation that excuses your whinging about things that aren’t even real problems with the spec. I’ve loved Spriest before, hated it before, etc. It’s a class that has drastically shifted playstyles for like 4 expansions, and is currently on one I don’t like.
Every time Spriest has been competitive they have not been competitive in low keys. That’s the point I was making.
Even last patch, where we were at our most competitive, we had some of the same ramp timings and would have been just as bad in a key where things die in a couple seconds. So pointing those out is useless.
cause it is ‘condemnation’ on such contradictory rubbish (even though i can’t speak on whatever tf whinging is). but like…
then why are you even commenting on spriest’s state of damage output? and just because, according to you, that ramp-up styles have always had this problem (which, according to you… isn’t a ‘real problem with the spec’ but now…
…is?) it should ALWAYS be a problem?
and elliptical’s video was absolute nonsense. 28+ keys is so far away from common. she herself hasn’t done anything near a 28. but whatever my good man, you keep ‘whinging’ about players who actually, you know… play the spec in question… and their gripes as being useless while playing discipline, lol.
so weird how you don’t play the spec in question for obvious reasons, while defending the awesome state that spec you don’t use is in! hmm, a true mystery
Because when I initially commented in this thread I was talking about competitive viability.
There’s a lot wrong with the spec, one of the chief things is that it has 0 utility, and any utility that MIGHT have been useful (but turns out wasn’t) this patch was nerfed significantly from last after all the damage nerfs it took going in.
Yes, Spriest’s damage DID suck, it doesn’t right now.
It will, it is by nature part of ramp up design. You can’t make ‘ramp up’ a playstyle while somehow allowing them to DPS against mobs that die instantly. If you’re trying to play ramp in very low keys and “maining” it there or something, you’re shooting yourself in the foot and should try to push higher.
The playstyle is perfectly applicable at 20s. Mobs aren’t instantly dying at the 20 level, they’re not even instantly dying at the +15 level unless you’re playing with hard carry groups or something.
Weird that I’ve said more than once it’s not in a competitive state and I don’t like it but you’re still somehow saying that I’ve been saying it’s perfect, lol.
Just damage itself is not the problem, but it’s what you keep bringing up. I replied to you about your complaints about damage because it seems that despite being a player that plays the spec in question, you seem to not realize that it DOES do damage, and you hyperbolize (or I hope it’s hyperbolic) that you’re doing less damage than tanks after all the buffs spriest has gotten to damage.
Spriest is OK when it comes to damage right now - it’s keeping up with specs that are good. But damage isn’t everything.
spriest’s damage isn’t competitive, though. i understand you don’t know this because, as you put it:
i’m sure the other players let it slide because of power infusion and helping out with horrible affixes like afflicted during weeks like this (funny how you claim 0 utility, when i’m pretty sure a chief reason why priests are getting invites on weeks such as this is because of purify). and no, our damage doesn’t SUCK, but it’s not all that great, either. but how would you even know, you aren’t…
and yes, again, to break it down in simpler, more digestable terms for you, spriest’s style is rooted in ramp-up. we know. this has been established, over and over. i’m saying, and please focus here, that ramp-up styles aren’t necessarily all that viable anymore, in rush rush go go environments such as m+. i’m not even sure what ‘perfectly applicable at 20’ means when at ‘lower keys’ (cause 20 is lower keys now, according to 22+ all-stars such as whinger here), when shadow’s lack of upfront dmg is MORE apparent than at ‘slightly’ higher keys, like the ever so common 28. lol, jesus.
if you feel damage isn’t the only problem, then i disagree. if you’re implying something like they’re turning shadow into an augvoker-type spec, then no, i don’t want that to happen to shadow. and our utility isn’t all that bad. i tell you this because maybe you need to be told. you don’t even play the spec, after all.
You’ve been proven wrong on this in this very thread. I don’t really know what to say.
Everything in that video is applicable to +20s and +22s.
It’s applicable below that.
If you are having trouble at 18-20s, frankly it’s a skill issue. That’s what Ellipsis was saying in more polite terms.
You said lower keys, which I mean I’d agree if we’re talking very low keys when stuff is dying very fast, but again, spriest is matching the DPS of very good specs right now ~5 globals in or so. That’s not a ton of ramp up time that’s keeping it out of content.
It’s everything else about the spec that is keeping it out of content. Spriest doesn’t bring bloodlust, its interrupt CD is extremely long in a set of dungeons that require more interrupts than normal, it doesn’t bring bres, the priest class utility (mass dispel, mind soothe) doesn’t stack appreciably in any way so if the healing spec is good there’s no reason to double up - and TBH there’s nothing to mass dispel in this set of dungeons anyway. Its defensive is fairly good, but long CD and otherwise the spec is very squishy (which isn’t helped by SW:D being a common cast in the rotation). PI got nerfed and also the current best specs in the meta aren’t amazing with haste scaling anyway, so even that’s less valuable. It also doesn’t have any reliable stops outside psychic scream, which breaks on damage. Compared to specs that have a whole toolkit full of them, some to a point where they’re almost perma-stunning packs.
The spec has nothing that makes it attractive in a dungeon environment - but it does OK damage. But for some reason that’s what you’re hyper focused on. Damage isn’t even what’s sought after in keys right now.
other than ‘but that’s not true!!!’, you really don’t, lol.
just because you say it (over and over and over), doesn’t make it so. sorry discipline spec player. you, simply put, for your sake, again, have no idea what you’re talking about.
Honestly a good DH will blow you out of the water at that level but good DHs don’t do 20s, they might ragefire a pack or two per key but they’re nowhere near good enough at sustained damage to stop you from catching up once their big burst is done for the next few pulls. If someone is wasting everything they’ve got into the same pulls the DH is deleting then honestly that’s kinda on them. You can also do stuff like pre dark archangel and position aggressively to make sure you’re casting damaging spells as soon as you enter combat instead of running into range late while the rest of the group is already blasting.
Lol, bro. I’ve played shadow before - so has I imagine everyone else here. I’ve spent whole Xpacs playing meta DPS to higher keys than I do nowadays because I’m WAY more casual than back when I was a college student or jobless and would get CE and push M+ because I had so much free time. Now I just play healer and chill out - but pointing that out doesn’t really refute anything I’ve said, nor does it increase the veracity of your argument at all.
I mean fair enough, but I haven’t met any good geared DH players in my keys before I left for holiday outside carry groups. That’s kinda why I had the caveat of really overgeared players or carries, etc.
If everyone’s doing average DPS for a 20 key, a spriest shouldn’t have a ramping problem. And if they don’t have a big ramping problem, they shouldn’t be falling behind the tank - their damage is pretty decent. There’s just no reason to really bring them. When I start my own key and I’ve got my lust and bres, and I have the choice between a mage, rogue, DH or priest, I expect about the same amount of damage, but there’s still an obvious wrong answer.
Worshiping? I mentioned them once in a passing comment about someone else explaining something to you, and they also didn’t say I was wrong outside very good players (which they also said didn’t exist in droves).
yep, that’s what i said! and nah, you’ve definitely mentioned them more than once.
or it’s more like you’re very selective in how you interpret posts on the wow forums, lol. and just because you said that doesn’t really refute anything I’ve said, nor does it increase the veracity of your argument at all.
I think while it’s true shadow is not meta, it’s firmly top 3rd for dps options. PI still matters, especially with mages shifting back into focus and disc falling out of favour as it struggles to heal through / live what’s going on in higher keys. Bliz buffed it a lot, and a lot of the external factors that worked against it early on in the season matter a lot less.
I just checked. I mentioned a single time that they were being polite about something that I wasn’t.
If that qualifies as worship, ok I guess.
But it’s very clear you’re just not willing to accept that your damage is your own fault, at this point. The spec’s got problems right now, but damage isn’t one.
lol, jesus. so because you didn’t refer to them DIRECTLY, doesn’t mean you didn’t refer to them at all. simple concept to grasp, but given your overall troubles grasping certain things throughout this whole thread, this isn’t surprising, and i was ready to help guide you again because of this anyways.
and keep taking cheap, sad wow forums-like shots with the good ol’ ‘iT’s YoUr OwN FaUlT!’ comments, it doesn’t change what i said. i can time 20’s just fine, on various specs too. unlike some who had to abandon a spec, for reasons that are painfully obvious to most but the person who’s resorting to schoolyard insults, lol.
I’ve played this game since cata, mythic raided, pushed high (ok not that high, only in the low 20s lol) and I have NEVER played a spec correctly and done less than tanks overall. Spriest has always had good ST damage. They are awesome to take on tyr weeks.
Asking why their kit and play style are borked beyond belief right now is reasonable (that’s the reason I don’t play them after their more recent rework)
Asking why they aren’t FotM and top 3 dps, is worthless to ask…just reroll. You can slam your forehead into the keyboard and go pump as BM if you want big dam.
I ran with an SPriest that ended a 20 Fall with about 180k dps and some change. Just behind the Paladin doing about 205k and above the DH that ended at 145k
