Yeah, people played and geared their players worse back then, and ret was easier to play properly (hit buttons as they light up).
Over a decade of theorycraft gave every other class way more DPS than ret, leaving the spec looking pretty bad now (before buffs)
Whatever you gotta tell yourself.
At a minimum they should be reverting the end of game nerfs on classes that are entirely based on a combo of a set bonus, and legendary weapon the bulk of players wont even have.
Edit: That applies to Pallys too <3
If rets were doing 14k DPS back in original wrath without Smourne theyâd look like the top DPS possible. Similarly retâs vanilla classic 800 to 1000 DPS would have looked amazing back in the original game.
Times changed, how people play the game changed, so the balancing decisions that worked back when people were far from optimized donât always work with modern play.
If ret was underperforming like it was in wrath classic back in original wrath, it would have also seen buffs.
As we enter the tier those changes were relevant, it no longer makes sense to remove those changes. According to sims, the class balance generally looks pretty good, with a fairly wide range of classes capable of top tier numbers.
I disagree. Good luck in ICC though.
If they reverted them, it would just objectively make the balance worse that itâs looking (which is currently surprisingly good)
Cat lady and her fear. Our warrior was flexing hard on the lol@fear/interrupt the whole tier.
would it? feral and ret probably are too high.
pally will have 3 s tier specs, and double the proportional class representation, 4~5 slots / 25.
He is just whining to be #1, but itâs kind of valid.
Cat in particular should definitely not be ahead of a smourne, but a nerf might cause them to revert to degeneracy, which is probably why itâs not nerfed.
The reverts they were referring to would basically just buff warrior to A tier without Smourne, and an uncontested S tier with it.
Reverting the buffs to paladin would basically punt them back to trash without Smourne and middling with it. There really werenât any late game ret nerfs because of our ICC gear to be reverted, we just didnât get buffed in ICC largely because a few items in that tier masked how bad the class was underneath (along with the other classes not being as widely optimized as they are now relative to ret which made them look better back then).
Even with all of this, ret isnât an S tier stacked spec. Itâs just a solid DPSâŚ
Warlock, Warrior, Priest, Mage, Paladin, and Druid all break 16k DPS in ICC sims, none break 17k. Half of the classes are really well grouped for top DPS. None of them are ahead by enough to stack the class over the people playing them.
Thatâs literally the balancing goal achieved perfectly.
It also doesnât really matter too much about feral out-simming shadowmourne. Your raid probably doesnât have a ton of 2h users, and while shadowmourne takes a while to get, itâs a guaranteed drop after X weeks, unlike other heroic weapons that you might never see in a phase. So while you canât get lucky and have it week 1, you also canât get unlucky and never see it.
If a guild has a ret and a fury warrior, they will probably both get a shadowmourne by the end of the phase even if you only do normal modes.
That feral druid might never get the weapon they need to reach top DPS.
Warriors have been god tier for 2 expansions. Theyâre only above average in WOTLK.
Youâll be fine
But did Ret really need ANOTHER buff? They didnât deserve another buff for the same reason warriors didnât deserve a buff in togc. You were already going to be doing well.
What other buff are you talking about? O_o
What buff are you referring to?
Last time they buffed us was at the start of Ulduar, and it largely fixed the scaling issues the class had.
Didnt they do some SoV buff or something? I donât recall.
Back at the start of Ulduar, yes. It just made crusader strike, divine storm, and hammer of wrath stack/refresh it to speed up our ramp up. (And it has a small boost to tiny abomination in a jar because of what it triggers on)
It was really minor compared to the simultaneous addition of the glyph. It still is really minor.
Nothing new has been done to ret since then.
2 buffs!?! Lets the warriors eat. Aggrand is a bad dev!
For an overwhelming majority of the player base, Sims vs. real-world parses are gonna be different by a significant amount.
True but it seems like Ret averages from warcraft logs get closer to their sims, I suppose because the rotation is fairly basic and doesnât require tricks to get close to topping out. So this point kinda works toward paladin favor.
This is actually important. People make too much of marginal differences in Sims.
Fury perform better on Sims than in reality. Through phase 2, 80% of Fury players did worse than 80% of Ret players. Only the good Fury players did better and only marginally.
Single target a Ret is slightly better but on cleave Fury is slightly better (both are great on cleave).
All in all Ret and Fury have been pretty much on par throughout.
I think that back when Ret got a buff Fury had an equally good claim to a buff. Itâs unfortunate they didnât get one then and I question the way Blizzard made their calls on class balance at the time.
But right now it just seems lame to complain about it - it is spilt milk. Weâre all doing very well and none of these specs are underpowered. Thereâs no real reason to make any class buffs or nerfs now except sour grapes.
I can understand warrior mains feeling frustrated and that Blizzard dropped the ball, but itâs time to get over it. The balance overall is pretty good going into p4.
Fury didnât get a buff back then because of what itâs looking like in ICC. Any substantial buff would have just made it the undisputed best DPS unless reverted, which blizz didnât want to do.
The ret buffs brought us up to where warriors were at the time (which, while low, was still part of the pack), and basically made our dps grow in parallel with them. That was the goal of them.
The only buff that didnât make sense was the feral one, as a massive total DPS gain wasnât the intent of the changes, they just chose to not fix it later.
This is absurd. It totally negates Class A in the hypo. You know it does. I know it does. Everyone knows it does. You get a very quick dead game if you balanced it that horrendously and you know it.