So uhh... AV

lol if u truly think that, ur not a troll, ur insane lol. claiming it can be done lol. just wow. not saying it cant be, but WOW LOL.

i cant talk to the horde, or is it something i should really really try? lol. and thank god we arent guild mates, id be roasting u every day, day in and day out. if u cant understand that a guild is a group of people who tries to accomplish a certain goal, weather it be totally just socializing or raiding or pvp. what i was trying to get at is the premades have the same mentality, i OPPED IN. a guild is not just a tag next to your name, its the goals behind it dude.

lol. ur literally back to tallking about ownership, no1 wants to own it, for the trillionth time. at this point i hope it was u who was silenced for whatever reason, u obviously need to be lol. whhatever premade did it. THANK YOU LOL. just remember, u started this nastyness with ur last comment about never want to be guildmates, u cant even stay objective to the topic, gotta attack the person, so go for it.
i got 2 hours be4 my ride ends, this will be fun lol.

wow. again just wow lol. i donnt even know what ur getting at here. im saying the pugs literally cant make it into dreks room be4 me, not because im dictating anything lol, cuz if im the paladin doing the warmaster strat, im leading the charge. im saying if ur a pug and u even maliciously try to pull the wm’s by trying to get there in fronnt of me, we will just back up annd let u die, because at that point ur being toxic though its never happened on my watch. im saying pugs wont even have a chance to screw it up, frankly idk what ur even talking about. u have a serious hard on for this control narritive of how alliance premades have an iron clench on the pugs and im saying because my group is different, u dont get to lump me in with them, u know why? because we didnt do it, thats like saying blizzard ban guild A’s name because guild B’s name is offensive and the reasoning is they both are guilds though!

idgaf about other premades, done with that argument. no1 thinks they own a BG instance, done with that argument.

what ur defending is insanity. like i said over and over, i have a macro that explains how to do give assist. and if they dont, we just get the roles done in chat. i do recind 1 small comment though that i said a while ago, they might not be toxic, they just might be afk, either way, i already said my group just does it in chat so at least all roles are filled. BUT, to not just give out assist, and ur not afk, and ur not even engaging to try to solve the problem, ur being toxic.

ur pathetic to even defend this at all period dude. cuz ive already said i dont do that silence thing, and u continue to say it, that makes ur arguements PATHETIC.

epic troll. actual proof ur a troll. maybe a super tryhard guild like apes can actually do it though, their healers lol a macro for every person lol, but frankly its downright DUMB.

WOW. ur just observing me say it over and over that i dont and pin poiting where u get a certain feeling and wanting clarification, though ive said over and over and over and over lol, thats what makes u pathetic dude.

i dont care what other premades are doing, and there u go again " that you seem / appear to defend" . read over all my posts, i keep saying my premade dont do it, wtf do i care what others are doing? if im not doing it? let me ask u something, when people was abusing the layering system by getting invites to parties and thus layered in, if i get invited to a party, but im not doing the layering thing, am i to be blamed still? think about how insane ur talking point is. i have yet to condemn? are u serious? WOW, ur a very interesting one. like seriously lol. i literally admitted that was a problem FIRST, BE4 the other guy said blizzard appologized for allowinng the door to open (which is right, its blizzards fault, and i did forget they did say that). just to make a fair point, imagine wow classic being dead or most of the alliance players just jump to horde because “reasons, dont matter what reasons” and say 10 alliance que for av and 40 horde does the same, the gate still opens. this is why this is a BLIZZARD problem, not a PREMADE problem. so be4 this goes further, u need to address this, cuz its the 3rd time ive said it. blizzard specifically claims fault for this, u CANNOT blame premades. just look at all the other games out there that has any kind of pvp, what development team allows the match to start without filling the game first period? oh i got a better one, they had 15 years to figure it out, this isnt even a bug.

EPIC TROLL. is it too much to ask to click that checkmark? lol. here i got a better idea, why the pugs work with the premades to win the game? OH WAIT, 99.999999% OF THEM DO, i bet ur the salty one that refuses to give assist and keep getting hit with silence cuz u were flagged by a specific premade.

might as well play the troll game now lol. YEA IT IS SON.

i dont care about them, we dont do it, i dont care what they do, thats that.

AND THERE IT IS. no i am not defending them, i said VERY SPECIFICALLY, VERY VERY SPECIFICALLY, OVER AND OVER, MY PREMADE DONT DO IT, I HAVE A MACRO. AND IF WE DONT GET ASSIST, WE DO IT IN CHAT SO ALL THE POSITIONS ARE FILLED. THERE IT IS SON, THE ACTUAL PROOF U LUMP US IN WITH THEM. i say again, i said it very very specifically many many times. wheres my apology? lol. i dont even want it, keep going, this is funny, still got 1 hour left on this drive!

LOL again, i already said i dont care what others do withh their premade. do i condemn it? at this point i might as well go full troll right? HELL NO I DONT CONDEMN IT. PASS THAT LEAD OVER SON. frankly if u “wont” click that check mark and go do whatever u want (not because of competency or because ur afk) ur being toxic and i hope u constantly get hit with the silence lol. oh, and CONVERSELY, u if ur argument is the pug doesnt want to play the premade way, why oh why does the 1 pug get too dictate to thhe whole group? ITS NOT HIS RIGHT? weak arguements dude.

do u want me to fix the tectonic plates so they dont shift too? again, not my premade, not my problem. oh, i got a better idea, remember how u kept complaining about how premades silence that dude? that dude can easily take a screenshot, and thus have a list of all those people and he can go report them, and im sure those people will get far harsher sentences for lying. BOOM , I , A PREMADE PLAYER, JUST SOLVED UR PROBLEM.

because santa claus is real.

nothing to refute lol.

if u think ur annywhere near winning ur insane dude. to actually be salty that ur goiing to win the game, all because of a check mark. categorically insane.

ii dont care its not funnny, i didnt do it, and hell, like i said it a little further up, i just solved ur problem.

If you agree that it can be done, why are you shocked about me saying it?

You made the claim of seeing somebody over and over, again makes you Guildmates, and I pointed out how that’s not true. You never said anything about Communication, which you still can communicate with the opposing faction. Like these Forums, for example. And the concept of a Guild is to do things, together, but a Pre-Made with different people, from different Guilds, is still not a Guild. You’re just borrowing each other, for one activity. You may repeat those activities, over and over, again, but you’re still not a Guild, together.

You’re not in a structured Guild, together. You just continuously borrowing each other (which is fine), but you’re still not a Guild. You’re not loyal, to each other, throughout the entirety, of the Game. You’re not Leveling, together. You’re not running Dungeons, together.

You’re not feeding each other Mats. You’re not Raiding, in Raids, together. You do things, together, as a whole, but you’re only going together, for AV. That’s not a Guild.

I don’t know why you’re so confused. Didn’t you say that people, not in your Pre-Made, are in “your” game? Well, you said “our”, I’m assuming, you’re speaking on behalf of your Pre-Made.

If that’s not you claiming ownership, I don’t know what else to tell you.

You, hoping I’ve been Account actioned, over this, shows exactly where you stand, on this issue. You, obviously, see nothing wrong with other people abusing the system.

Well, you should because they can have affect, in how the Game is altered.

Ad hominem attacks are not valid arguments. Try, again.

Simply not passing over a Leader Role/handing out Assist is not a Toxic mannerism. Otherwise, those who are just Fishing or AFK, in not trying to solve your problem are being just as “Toxic”, according to your own definition. And what exactly is the problem? That you didn’t get the Leader Role/Assist? Even though, you found a work around for it, making it obvious that you don’t really need the Leader Role/Assist.

You’re being Toxic by making this a bigger issue, then it really is, when you’ve already developed a system, around such a case. Especially, since you let the Fishers and AFKers get away with their lack of involvement.

I’m defending accounts getting Silenced 'cause they’re not actually spamming any Public Chat Channels which is what the Silence System is for. And Bullies don’t get to misuse a System simply because they didn’t get their way. Your ad hominem attacks and refusal to accept the truth, doesn’t change this.

The more you attack me, personally, the more your stance falls apart.

As I said earlier, you should care about what they’re doing 'cause what they do affects you, too.

Just because you say you don’t do it, doesn’t mean I have to believe you, but that wasn’t my point. You have yet to condemn these folks for abusing the Silence Feature. And, you’ve said, several times, that if it’s about passing over the Leader Role/Assist, that they should just simply it hand over, and that’s why I’m telling you, they shouldn’t have to be bullied/threatened, into handing over the Leader Role/Assist.

'Cause what they do affects the rest of us, in how we play the Game. Like I’ve been saying.

You just really love comparing apples to oranges. You’re essentially bragging about how Blizzard made this change, just to spite the Horde 'cause you think Blizzard was only thinking about the Horde, but I’m telling you, it wasn’t just the Horde, but the Alliance, as well. Because of what those Pre-Mades, did to them, the Solo PuGs, anyway.

No, you didn’t condemn the Pre-Mades about this. Only about the Doors opening but continued to pry at the Solo PuGs for not playing AV “right”.

And my point doesn’t involve any of that. It’s about the Pre-Mades Silencing Accounts of people that didn’t follow their every instruction.

Because I’m not even talking about that? I only brought it up because that was the only thing you mentioned about condemning Pre-Mades, for. Still, you keep defending their actions in Silencing Accounts that didn’t give Leader Role/Assist. I don’t know what’s so complicated about that. 'Cause I literally said, Horde didn’t have to deal with that, and you got all defensive about it.

Once again, ad hominem attacks are not valid arguments. Try again.

I did quote it, for you, so you can see what I’m referring to.

If you don’t care about them, why did you engage with me? That’s literally what I’ve been talking about, this entire time. Doesn’t matter, anyway 'cause I said, you should 'cause they affect your Gameplay.

Then why is it, when my very first post said Horde doesn’t have to fear about getting their Account actioned because Alliance Pre-Mades didn’t get their Leader Role/Assist, did you jump at me, if you know you’re not guilty?

We’ve already established that you don’t care what jerks do, in game, even though you should 'cause that’s really what causes a lot of these changes. Also, even though you may be joking (even though this isn’t a joking manner), that’s why I said, it’s important to work, as a Team. If they are the Leader Role, then they are the Leader.

Some of them don’t even threaten, right away. They’ll bypass the “rude talk” and just ask for the Leader Role, person says no, and the Pre-Made, in their Discords will conspire from there and Silence the person, to disconnect them.

Just keep denying the truth, it’s OK.

You’re sadly mistaken, to believe I’m upset over the Leader Role. It’s about falsely actioning people’s accounts. Really doesn’t matter the reason.

A) If you don’t care, you shouldn’t have engaged with me, in the first place. Because I do care, and that’s my entire point, of being in this conversation, to begin with. It was the very first thing I said and will continue to stand by what I said.

B) Again, you should care, 'cause what people do the in Game, does affect us all. This being one of them.

C) And you didn’t solve, any problem. It was a nice try, though.

Yet you avoid both of those threats.

Ha. Don’t have to imagine go look at the high elf thread.

Oh really? So how come:

And with one sentence your whole smeel falls apart.

Oh that’s your average? Where’s the “turtle” you “like”? Yup. Mouth says one thing actions say another. Well except in this case.

Sure it’s a pvp battleground with a mix of pve objectives that are won or defended with? The PvP. You’ve avoided it at all costs for so long you think Van is PvP. Lol

I know this man. You guys are hellbent on a pve race that is favored for allies to win. Avoiding pvp at all costs.
15 years of that same strat/mentality makes it fact. You can spin that however you want. Cuz you will. :rofl:

What a witty reply. The book was made because the original AV was pretty complicated for newbies, with a lot of in depth options on how to overcome your opponents. So it simplified the map’s core strategy. The battleground was meant to simulate actual warfare. Zerg rushing was never the intended game play for players. It just evolved to be that way because of the player base. Now if you have something constructive to add, feel free. Otherwise don’t waste my time.

Cool story bro.

Cute, you kids thinking you came up with all this stuff that people have been doing for years. :rofl:

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Hard to take a “leader” seriously when the simplest words cannot be spelled correctly.

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Except that the lopsided games were caused by a Blizzard coding error - not the premades.

This has been pointed out many times, by numerous people. But still, many people seem to have missed this. So I will include one example from this thread:

Further, here is the link to the post where Kaivax stated a Blizzard setting allowed the lopsided games to start:

It’s a long post and people might find it difficult to locate the exact place it is located. So I include a quote of the specific line where Kaivax states they are fixing the setting that caused this.

[quote=“Kaivax, post:1, topic:422125”]
We’re fixing a setting that allowed the battleground to start with as few as 20 players on a team. [/quote]

The premades did not write the code that allowed lopsided games to start.

The problem might have been fixed earlier if the players who saw this happening had mass reported it in the Bug Report forum rather than running to the General Forum to launch a witch hunt.

Except that the lopsided games were caused by a Blizzard coding error - not the premades.

This has been pointed out many times, by numerous people. But still, many people seem to have missed this. So I will include one example from this thread:

Here is the link to the post where Kaivax stated a Blizzard setting allowed the lopsided games to start:

It’s a long post and people might find it difficult to locate the exact place it is located. So I include a quote of the specific line where Kaivax states they are fixing the setting that caused this.

The premades did not write the code that allowed lopsided games to start.

The problem might have been fixed earlier if the players who saw this happening had mass reported it in the Bug Report forum rather than running to the General Forum to launch a witch hunt.

I think the bug was actually caused by Premades, but not intentionally.

I’m thinking the way the system worked is that it would check, see that 20+ signed up in relatively short order. Toss those 20+ into a new AV (because there’s enough for a new instance of AV). But many would decline the invitation because the BG number wasn’t the same for enough of the group.

However, the system wouldn’t do a second verification before transferring the players. It would still think that 20+ Alliance are going into ‘this’ AV, when in actuality only 8 or so are.

The result, you get matches that had as little as 4 players…~10 seconds before the match starts (gate opens).

Still not the players’ fault.

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Congrats on cheating your way to your rank by avoiding PvP in a battleground! Whatever title you earned means so much!

And take it easy on the Horde “whining.”

You didn’t hear it because it really didn’t matter to you, but there were plenty of Alliance who were very vocal because they did not like being stepped on by their own faction!


I would not say the bug was caused by the premades, even unintentionally. Cause implies blame.

I think it would be more accurate to say the premades dropping some queues triggered, or exposed a bug in the coding.

Back in vanilla, Horde were the underpopulated faction and did use the same kind of method to create premades for themselves. There was never a complaint about those kinds of lopsided games starting, let alone an entire forum uproar about it.

If a game did not have enough people in it, it did not start. In making Classic, someone under time pressure might have made a mistake while cutting and pasting a part of the code.
Or given realm populations were much smaller, and given you didn’t have the entire Americas in one Battle group, a much smaller number of AV’s were created. Maybe something about the current population in the battle group created a situation that had never been encountered before. I have no idea what the cause was, but something obviously was not fully tested before release.

In any event, the premades had no idea that something like this was even possible. As the problem began to reveal itself, people expressed feeling bad for the pugs that were getting stuck in them. Some groups agreed to take borderline queues that were less than optimal, and would have normally been rejected, even though it increased the chance of failure for us. This was done to try to reduce the negative impact.

To then be repeatedly slandered; to be accused of being completely callous and doing far worse than what Horde did during phase 2 even after the real problem has been identified, gets to be way much.

As far as I have heard, there is only one thing premades have done that is ethically wrong, and that is to chat report a pug. I was in a premade group for a little over two weeks. I probably did someplace between 100 and 200 games with them. I had read about it on the forums, and one of my guild mates was silenced. But I did not run across it in any of my games until the night before the patch.

I was horrified when I heard someone ask the group to chat report someone. A rl friend of mine was at my house playing with me. “Don’t do it!” I yelled. “It will silence the person’s account for a week. No way he deserves that kind of treatment.” So neither of us reported the poor fellow. But enough people did that he was removed from the bg.

I’m still mortified over that. It is wrong, wrong, wrong.

In another post, I talked about the anti-social behaviors of psychopaths, sociopaths and “almost psychopaths”.

In any event, I believe that premades absolutely do have to take responsibility to stop this kind of behavior.

Because many people are quick to point the finger, I want to repeat, I ran well over 100 AV’s, maybe even over 200, with these people. In all those games I saw that occur only once. So it might not be as prevalent as the forums make it appear. Or maybe I was just in a group of people who rarely did it. I do think it’s the kind of thing that can get worse over time. Because people with little or no conscience will encourage others to do it, and they can influence people who don’t fully understand how bad it is.

If the person in our group who told the others to do it, is actually one of these extreme anti-social types, they probably did not even report the person themselves. They are very good at getting others in trouble while protecting themselves.

These behaviors have to be nipped in the bud, or they will destroy the good that the premades have done, and are trying to do.


Blizzard fixed it, which is what Alliance and some Horde players wanted. But the problem would of never happened if people just stopped dodging the queue in the first place. Cherry picking teams to win isn’t “In the Spirit of the Game”. When one side has the ability it makes for a unfair advantage, much like pulling the War masters from Drek room then using pathing to kill Drek. We know eventually they fix it, but will Activision do it, or allow the current state of the game exist, further dividing the community and making the game even more toxic. I do want to think because it wasn’t also fixed sooner was because of the holidays.

Wtf u even babbling on about. Okay for starters this is not the original or is it anything like the original vanilla experience. In vanilla we waited maybe 30 mins at most ever for a bg. You alliance members still putting together premades should get the ban hammer as it’s been expressed many times by blizzard that AV was not meant to be qued as 40 man group. AV has become a complete sh#t show and it’s alliances fault not hordes

As for the getting exalted on our mains 90% of us did that the first week and dipped out of AV. Those people farming the higher titles care about honor and nothing else. So…dumb comment.

I was really hoping this newest patch would at least deter alliance from cheating but it didn’t so now we have even more issues and even longer ques…thanks again for that.

Cauchy, I’d be curious to see if your guild got a bump in numbers due to your posting. On the flip side, the guilds of alliance players who are vocally excuse making cowards have got to be suffering as a result.

If I were looking to faction swap, it is your attitude that would be attractive. The ones blaming everything but their own defeatist attitudes, not so much.

The 30 horde PUGs actually playing and the 10 afks should be GLAD they have the privilege of being decimated by sweaty Alliance premades because the queues are slightly shorter? Don’t you realize how out of touch that sounds?

And of course, Alliance PUGs should be singing your praises that they get the rare opportunity to lose every single game because it’s them vs the entire Horde talent pool who cut their teeth fighting off failmades.

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Not from anything I’m doing. It’s a pretty chill guild, and I’m happy to be a part of it.

I probably won’t jump ship to Horde, however. I’ve mained a human pally since 2006, and I’ll probably stick with it. If I do make a horde toon, I’ll look you up!

Until then, I hope we can meet in a BG and beat the crap out of each other soon, however!

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I think nearly everyone who heard about it was glad they were able to find the problem and fix it. It was a nasty problem.

Regarding stopping dodging the queue, you have to realize two things.

  1. It took a while for the problem to become visible.
  2. Many of the people who are attempting to rank up, and who have jobs, family, friends and other rl commitments spend all the time they have available for wow in the bg’s. They don’t have the time to visit the forums. So even after it became a visible problem to the pugs and to forum readers, a lot of the premaders were still unaware of it. Toward the end, when the information began to filter down, some did begin to take queues they would have previously dropped. Others began to brainstorm about ways to reduce the problem.
    But it’s hard for people to be altruistic, when it means they have to hurt themselves to do so.

That’s one of the areas that I find very confusing.

  1. When AV was first released, you could queue with a full raid team of 40 people. For some reason this was stopped. I don’t know why. Maybe it was thought to be unfair to the smaller servers. Maybe they were not able to produce full teams and therefore could not compete. Or there may have been some other reason.
    Back then I rarely did AV’s. AB was always my favorite bg, with WSG as the second. I would occasionally do an AV if there weren’t enough people on line for us to field an AB or WSG. AV was just for goofing around in - making a Shredder, summoning Ivus, fighting over a gy. When you joined an AV, you probably got into one that had already been going on for hours. Towers were already capped, NPC’s killed.
    Sorry, I digress off of the point. But the main point is, originally you could queue as a group and then for some reason unknown to me, that was removed. After that point, only Horde made premades for AV. They had the faster queues.
  2. In every other portion of the game dungeons, raiding, the other two BG’s encourage you to build the best teams you can make. “Cherry picking” teams is the standard procedure. Pugging is looked down upon. So it’s hard for me to understand, why in this tiny little part of the game its not the norm. Just baffles me.

This is another area that I think gets misrepresented on the forums. The misrepresentations or misunderstanding create a great deal of animosity. So I think it’s important to clear these up.

  1. It turns out, Horde does have the ability to make their own premades. They have been perfecting it over the past month. There is a youtube video about Horde premades that went up about a month ago. They obviously had not fully worked it out yet, because they only had a small group.
    But this past Sunday and Monday we ran up against high ranked horde teams several times. Not only did they have a lot of high ranks, but they played a more sophisticated strategy than we had been seeing from the pugs over the past few weeks. They capped everything quickly, sent a smaller group down to defend Frostwolf - And when they won, they won in less than 10 minutes. The first time it happened we were all shocked. 0.0
    Furthermore, I heard the workaround that the Alliance are currently using referred to as the method Horde has had to use to premade.

  2. Horde have the ability to single pull and kill Vanndar. I’ve read references to this here on the forum. Before I responded to your post, I went over to youtube to see if I could track it down. Sure enough, there is a little 3m 17s video explaining how to do it.

So both of these things that are presented as unfair advantages that only Alliance have, are actually available to both factions. That being the case, how unfair are they?

I personally think that the afk botters are more of a threat to the integrity of the ranking system - particularly the ones who are in high rank premades and then bot when their team is not around. Those have all the signs of either a person or a business who intends to sell a High Warlord or Grand Marshall. In my opinion those people are the real culprits who are violating “the Spirit of the Game”.

But while we are busy fighting about the illusory one sided advantages of regular players, no one has enough energy left over to make much of a fuss about these guys. Why is there no cry out against the botters? Why no clamorous demand that Blizz be more active in getting rid of them?

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God these threads are pure cringe. QQ that free, undeserved wins are gone. Blame horde.

“Oh wait we can cheat again nevermind all good forget i said all this!”

And you guys wonder why all the bad players are on Alliance and you cant win any pug vs pug or premade vs premade.

Be responsible for your own actions. No one makes you premade. You do it because you cant win.

I have never cried about the queue. I have pointed out that why we dont let you walk over us and why we turtle is based on time in bg vs time in queue.

I actually love the queue times. It means i can sleep and not be left in the dust. Also means i can get farming done between queues or go out in the world and farm world kills while i wait. Only people i see making this claim are alliance who want to believe we hate the queue.

This is an outright terrain abuse. Sorry it is.

Again never cried about premades - actually the opposite. I typically am here to laugh at you guys over the fact that even in a premade you guys struggle to beat us.

Yep. We realized we were not getting enough honor because you guys were cheesing the win - so we adapted and improvised and found a way to get our honor. Sorry that we force you to pvp in a bg.

Funny thing is - this works both ways on the fear bomb. Only alliance refuse to play the map or recall for defense so yea…

Yet only the alliance has been vocally crying about this. Hmmm… seems to check out i guess?

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