I think most people are annoyed at the double standard.
Why did it matter a character in Ghost in the Shell was cast to be played by Scarlet Johansson, who was then ridiculed by everyone until she stepped down.
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Eh, in that case there’s a bit of a labor dispute too. There’s a lot of minority actors who have been getting upset that roles that they feel they would be perfect for are getting cast for big names (or like the really stupid casting ad for the Last Airbender live action movie). So added on to the whole people wanting to see more representation in film tied in to actors getting upset that roles that could be going to them are ending up with the same faces as all the other movies.
I didn’t pay too much attention to GitS mess, but sounds a bit like Ms. Johansson stuck her foot in her mouth a bit and made things worse than if she hadn’t said anything. But then again, it didn’t seem too odd a casting since the Major is a robot and all.
I don’t care about actors not getting a role they feel they would be perfect for. That happens in probably every single movie ever made. And ever will be made.
They aren’t the ones paying the bills.
The only thing I know off hand that SG said was along the lines of an interview saying she felt she is qualified to play things she isnt. Whether that be a handicap person, a tree, whatever. Because her job is an actor. Which is to literally play things she isn’t.
I believe she also received internet-outrage for being cast as a transgender person in a movie, because the internet felt only transgender actors should have been seen for that role. Another role she was heckled out of.
Having to appropriate other cultures’ stories to get one’s representation in films seems like nothing but a shallow notion of pandering. I feel like it would be sincere if representation was filled in a way accurate to the stories and accurate of the people being represented.
Not “hey look, we changed the race of someone in a story for you! don’t you feel included now! I mean, no, its not a story that has any significance to the culture of the people represented. but yay inclusion!”
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That’s what I heard, seemed a bit confrontational, with the amount of attention paid to this issue lately, might have been more diplomatic to just say that she’s not the one who chose to cast her. It’s a contentious issue in that industry, and it doesn’t seem like it’s going to hurt her future prospects of working.
I think some of it depends on the story being told, GitS, I dunno, it’s an action movie based on a manga/anime and it’s not like this is an important distinction in the plot. But dunno what the other role is, if it’s a minor story point that’s not really expanded on in the movie it’s one thing, but if you’re doing a focused story about that struggle, bringing in a actor with that background seems to fit better, and probably brings in a greater understanding of the emotions involved in the performance.
Who knows, maybe it was just they felt this actor brought the right energy, or had a voice they felt they could work with in the movie. I’m not going to find it pandering that they cast that actor in a film where it doesn’t really matter what she actually looks like. Maybe it’s from liking Hitchhiker’s Guide rubbing off, I don’t really care if two different versions of the same story line up the same way, it doesn’t hurt it to mix things up.
I do think on screen representation matters, just to have at least some of the people in movies there to spread things out for people. It’s not like we can’t identify with people who don’t look like us, but it’s nice to have a bit more variety than there has been.
And yeah, I only really think it really deserves getting picky when the story demands it. Story about mermaids that doesn’t touch on appearance other than “she’s so pretty the prince fell in love with her at first site” Go nuts. James Bond retires and a woman inherits the 007 designation, could be cool. And so on.
Straight retelling of historic events with people we know what they look like, probably best to get the people who you can make up and SFX into looking like those figures. Story where the race of the characters is important to the plot and you’re playing it straight and not doing a Alien Nation thing, get actors that fit the parts. and so on.
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She was white. The Princess and the Frog is an adaptation of The Frog Prince. Both the Prince and Princess were white. No one had an issue.
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So you’d be okay with Morgan Freeman being cast, in a American Civil War movie, as Jefferson Davis?
Oh James didn’t retire. He quit. End of Spectre, he tells MI6 to suck a fat one and steals the classic Aston Martin from the garage. It was cool. But that’s why there’s a new 007.
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And yet, a mere 15 years ago…
Seeing that, here’s a perfect example of what I am about to discuss:
https://deadline.com/2018/08/marlon-wayans-netflix-bresha-webb-sextuplets-movie-1202450864/
So, we’re cool with this racism, but not that racism. That’s asinine. To be clear, I thought White Chicks was funny. Not tryna hate on Marlon (I met him once, briefly; he was really nice), just using his past work as an example.
People lose their common sense over race issues. Anger over real racism, I understand. Things like current-day genocide and slavery. Anger over incidental racial insensitivity (like, bad jokes), or cultural urban legends… nah. Come on. Be smarter than that.
Anger, fear or hate over the race of fictional cartoon characters is almost laughable, and definitely for the birds. I tell ya what, let’s make Ariel a third Mongolian, a third Egyptian, and a third Scottish, see how that flies. Who cares?!?!? She’s a friggin’ cartoon.
If Roland Deschain can be English, Ariel can be Mongolian.
English? But… Roland Deschain was played by Idris Elba - they turned the Gunslinger from White to Black! Yeah, English, genius. Born in London. English, of Sierra Leonian ancestry. Incidentally, and inconsequentially, he has dark skin.
Do we want equality? Yes, let’s all be equal. That is the goal, right?
- But don’t do activity X, that’s for our race.
- But don’t say words Y and Z, those are for our race.
- Don’t give our race any special treatment in schools, jobs, etc.
- Please give our race special treatment in schools, jobs, etc.
- In a mixed-race relationship? You get a pass on some of the above.
- In a mixed-race relationship? You get no passes on anything racial.
You know that “date line” in the sand?
- If your race was mistreated after that line, you’d better be angry about it.
- If your race was mistreated before that line, shut up about it, yeah?
We honor deities from two thousand years ago, but we don’t honor, remember, or have any anger over the millions that died at the hands of the “Earthly Incarnations” of those deities. Crusades? Those people don’t matter anymore. It happened far too long ago. Now, shut up and get ready for church.
Also:
- If your race was mistreated somewhere on Earth other than North America or 1940s Germany, shut up about it. Armenian Genocide? Cambodian Genocide? Holodomor? Three Alls? Never heard of 'em, don’t care about 'em.
People don’t think clearly when it comes to race, they go nuts over it when race is largely inconsequential in life. And it gets even less relevant as time passes.
Society says we should be mad about X, but not Y. We should condemn these people, not those. You should have equal hate for the person that is wearing body armor, armed to the teeth ready to mow some people down simply because they are “race X”, as you should for the celebrity that utters, offhand, a racially insensitive term.
Hate 'em all, hate 'em right now, and don’t forget to tell your followers on Socials!
The single-digit-IQ media doesn’t help much either:
One person calling the cops on another for loitering is not news.
One person calling the cops on another of a differing race for loitering is racism! FEAR IT! HATE IT!
I often wish I was born thousands of years from now when everyone will be more or less the same shade of brown, and we will look back at races and see how utterly ridiculous our behavior towards anything racial was.
Culture? I’m in love with it.
Race? I give a flying… leap.
And, yeah, it took ten edits and about an hour to revise this post. On a topic like this, I absolutely want to make sure my words and tone are precisely conveying my thoughts. I probably should have finished it externally, then just copypasta’d it in here. Shoulda, coulda.
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You did just fine!
I also share your frustration: I’m STILL waiting for the ‘progressives’ here to tell me why its okay for Tllda Swinton to play the Ancient Master.
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Mmm, I’m not sure you got my point, though.
Go back and re-read the parts where I said that fussing over the race of fictional characters is silly? I’m honestly kinda “typed out” right now.
If someone were to give the role of Haile Selassi (Ras Tafari), the late Etheopian King, to a Japanese actor, then yes, that would be disrespectful and worthy of discussion.
However, casting a Scottish woman into a role that was held by an Asian character in a comic book is inconsequential. That’s called artistic choice and isn’t really deserving of discussion beyond the artistic merit. Race shouldn’t even enter one’s mind in a case like this.
Ancient One. Ancient Master is a DC character, I think.
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The original one was in the story, and she could have been plaid for all we know, being as it made no mention of her skin colour.
So basically, your argument is that if a fictional fantasy character was imagined as white at some point, it is a terrible thing if she should later be reimagined as anything else other than white. That is my conclusion because the colour of her skin is of no importance to the story whatsoever.
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You are totally unbelieveable.
While the STORY is fictional, the SETTING is not.
And since the STORY was written a certain way, why not stay true to the source?
What’s next? Aftican Vikings?
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Did you read what I said before you got the vapors there?
Actual straight up historical movie, cast as close as your budget can afford. (as opposed to an alt-history or other twist retelling that is open about how they are are twisting the history for whatever impact they want)
I’m kinda way behind in all the movies lately, haven’t had the money or access to them for a while. I just knew there was another whole drama going on about that, and had seen someone say that it wasn’t casting Bond as a woman but a woman taking over the designation.
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Because? No really, give us your answer, I’m sure it will be enlightening.
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Yep, that’s what I thought. I found it quite funny you would “like” my post, then come back and say what you did in direct response. Tell the truth, you didn’t read it did you? You did? Then why would you like it? Our points of view are clearly at odds. Strange.
So, as I said (and I already said enough to earn an ‘A’ on a college assignment)…
You have every right to disagree on artistic merit. Absolutely, some people will feel that fictional characters should stay true to sources. Excellent point.
It’s the racial issues / hate / fear / anger that are asinine and stupid.
So, if you disagree because you feel the story would work better with one color over another, then great. Shallow and narrow-minded, maybe, but fine.
But if you disagree because “It’s racist to change such and such character from black/white/asian to black/white/asian,” then you’ll get nothing but opposition from me, because that’s nonsense.
Something as inconsequential as a movie or cartoon trivializes real racism - you know, the kind people are dying over. Worry about that, have something to say on that, instead of wasting time over the color of your favorite comic book character.
Because stories are fictional and can change, sometimes for the better. Have an open mind. Go re-read what I said about …
…er, nevermind already LOL. Sheesh. The info is there; as I said I spent about an hour putting it together.
If you have a specific point of mine to debate, let’s go. Otherwise, coming back with, “but, but, I think it should be this way,” isn’t a continuation of the discussion, it’s just a restatement of a point you already made.
Something I’m trying to avoid here…
Typical attack by someone who has no mature reply in fact.
Then maybe quit acting like you have actual knowledge. I, at least, LEARN before I blather about something.
Now answer my question.
I find it quite funny you think I did.
Welcome to the finer points of debating on forums: too bad it upsets you.
…AND here comes the name calling.
Done with you.
Well, that escalated quickly.
FIrst, I’ve been “debating on forums” since the late 80s; I clearly know what to expect and how to handle myself. I thank you for your welcoming words, but you’re about 30 years too late.
Next, I’d venture a guess that what I said upset you, because you’re doing textbook Projection and assuming I am mad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
The truth is that I am anything but upset. Decent mood today, the weather is good, and I’m generally happy. You inferred an incorrect emotion from my text. I’d thank you to reconsider your incorrect assumption. You know what they say about assuming.
Also…
People that cry racism over cartoons and movies are, in my subjective opinion, shallow and narrow-minded. Why?
Because…
No one’s angry. Come back and talk. If you think I am angry, you’re wrong. And I am happy to hear your opinion on my depth of character and scope of vision, as I shared my opinions, based on our conversation.
That’s a shame, because you really haven’t said anything of consequence yet. Why don’t you work on a post like mine, back there? Lay out some points, think about supporting information. Give examples that support your argument. Set up a train of thought and follow it through to a logical conclusion. You know, argue with your brain, not your emotions.
I’d honestly be interested in hearing what you have to say if you put something like that together.
I have made my thoughts known on that situation known in both the post you first asked the question about and my response. If you want to keep quacking at me at least bother reading the couple of sentences directed at you.
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