So the Alliance are just supposed to forget

[Fengar-skywall (Fengar)]

I like how everywhere you look people call Blizzard’s storytelling bad, and yet we have over 400 posts in this topic alone of debating back and forth which side is doing better in the war; the exact thing you would be going for in a a game with multiple factions that needs neverending conflict.

[Cairnage-greymane (Cairnage)]

the exact thing you would be going for in a a game with multiple factions that needs neverending conflict.

The problem is many like Hamstar see it as win/lose horde/alliance type battle. Either the Horde win or the Alliance win.

Like I said in my last post. In this expac there is only 1 segement who wins.

Thats Sylvanas / Nathanos

The Alliance lose or tie every encounter.
The Horde lose or tie every encounter.

Sylvanas / Nathanos win every encounter. Prove me wrong. And dont try to tie a Horde loss to Sylvanas either. Her goals and motivations are different than the Horde’s.

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

I can argue you destroyed everything treading from darkshore to teldrassil:auberdine, bashal aran, groove of the ancients,THE FOREST BETWEEN ALL THIS, and teldrassill was a mini continent on its own right, it also had its little towns that burned with the tree.

How does that change that horde lost at UC?

Summary

End result.

Because really… that was an honorable thing to do, you must take care in account troops morale when you are waging war, sacrificing your own troops morale can go only so far before they start rebelling.

Doesn’t change that was what happened.

I can tell you, the city was lost on sylvanas terms,

No the city was lost because alliance won the battle and forced us to retreat. She destroyed it in a last failed attempt to take your leaders with it. We had 4 other plans that the alliance all countered. The alliance FORCED the horde to retreat and Sylvanas did one of the most common millitary tactics of destroying what you can’t take with you.

e lost much more on teldrassil and you guys didnt lose even half of it,

What is the other half? Also what were the two goals of our invasion of Darnassus? Kill Malfurion and then capture Darnassus. How did those turn out for the horde?

[Cairnage-greymane (Cairnage)]

How does that change that horde lost at UC?

Look at it this way.

UC = Horde Loss. Alliance Tie. Sylvanas win
Teldrassil = Alliance loss. Horde tie. Sylvanas win
Darkshore WF = Alliance Loss. Horde tie. Nathanos win.

[Karserd-ragnaros (Karserd)]

If you bothered to read my ENTIRE post, my point was that we think the writing sucks too and i can also do the victim olimpics from my side, but that would be idiotic, instead we should demand better writing.

[Lassanni-silvermoon]

What is the other half?

Which Horde playable race had their entire civilian population wiped out in the battle for UC again? Is Anduin going around raising fallen Horde troops to use in the war efforts and sending them off to fight the Horde? Where are the camps setup to make sure we track down and murder all the surviving Horde that escaped the battle?

Imagine if Saurfang instead of surrendering and giving up on the Horde had maintained his status as a Horde hero and favored character fighting and dying bravely in the battle. Then afterwards Anduin said “huh bet I can fix that”, lightforging him on the spot and Saurfang jumping up yelling “For the Alliance!!!” and rushing off to start chopping off Horde players heads.

No no, you are right. Teldrasil and UC were toooooootally the same thing. /rollseyes

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

Which Horde playable race had their entire civilian population wiped out in the battle for UC again?

Besides the other NE strong holds that for some reason don’t count? Those nameless and never see civilians that some how makes UC less of a horde lose? Perpetual Alliance victimhood is all I am seeing here.

P.S. I mean if only the NE knew the horde were coming and used their portals in advance? I mean you really think they left their civilians there when they could easily open portals to evacuate them ahead of time?

[Lassanni-silvermoon]

Besides the other NE strong holds that for some reason don’t count?

It was stated most of the NE population was on Teldrasil at the time. Don’t recall if it was quest text or in one of those short stories they made. It was explicitly stated though pretty much all the NE’s were there at the time aside from the Sentinel forces headed to Silithus.

Those nameless and never see civilians that some how makes UC less of a horde lose?

Not sure what you are getting at here. If you talking about the UC civi’s, yeah they all got evacuated.

I mean if only the NE knew the horde were coming and used their portals in advance? I mean you really think they left their civilians there when they could easily open portals to evacuate them ahead of time?

That is the point Blizz made. Yes. They (the devs) went out of their way to show that.

It would have been pretty easy to make UC a similar attack. They could have let Anduin continue being his old peaceful self, trying to minimize causalities etc in the attack then let one of the Alliance leaders show up (Jaina on her boat or the conspicuously absent Tyrande) and say “Not this time” as they bombard UC with Arcane Cannon Fire/Giant Moonfalls decimating the city and blowing the Horde forces and population there to smithereens. Would have even added some shades of that “morally grey” we were promised but never received.

We didn’t get that because the fact is the devs would never allow the Horde to suffer a loss like that.

[Cairnage-greymane (Cairnage)]

We didn’t get that because the fact is the devs would never allow the Horde to suffer a loss like that.

If we had a story like that, the Sylvanas Horde player base would implode. They would all turn on WARMODE, start screaming there is no one to fight then simply melt down.

Thrall’s Horde playerbase might go, well it WAS a valid military target and laugh at the ones foaming at the mouth.

[Valore-draka]

“It looks like we’re not even going to get exclusive bee mounts.”

I’m having a serious ‘aww.,’ moment.

[Jessail-terenas (Jessail)]

Would be nice if Blizzard would allow the Horde to have a raid on a Alliance city for once.

Stormwind raid is coming… the dark lady will raise all the dead in the city and kill many of the citizens.

Blood elves remember.

Wut… Belf situation is complicated, they literally had horde on their doorstep and exited the alliance after the fall of Lorderon. They were a little busy and the alliance or what was left of it was far away.

Forsaken remember.

And the humans in the area, AKA the scarlet crusade, didn’t want that to happen… again far more complicated than just “OH NOES HORROR.”

And recently… night elves remember.

Uh… Nelfs weren’t abandoned, Genn gave Anduin a royal chewing out and forces were sent.

Evaded every single Sylvanas trap, forced the Horde to retreat, captured a major Horde leader, denied the Horde a city.

Actually I wouldn’t say they evaded every single one, Sylvanas’ goal isn’t to militarily defeat the alliance. Far from it, she wants to bleed them dry so she can raise all their dead at once. I’ve got a pretty hard bet that the 8.3 raid will be on Stormwind.

Invaded the Troll City, killed many of its citizens, dismantled its navy (the entire reason the Horde were interested in the Zandalari), killed its leader. All because they were allied with the Horde.

The goal was primarily to force the Zandalari to surrender and separate them from the horde, strategically this was an absolute loss for the alliance as the Zandalari empire is now part of the horde. So it was a pyrrhic victory at best. The only upside here is that the Zandalari fleet was heavily damaged.

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

¡Sí! Como … tal vez una ciudad dorada, o una pirámide. Al menos un rey.

Only one Arrogant Trol King vs Thousands of inosent.No, it’s not enough for me.

[Caelin-boulderfist (Caelin)]

So we had Brill, UC, and all of Tirisfal Glade, but now we LOST them.

And the NEs lost probably three times as much in land alone. Hell you could actually move back into the Undercity some day in the future. Can you same the same for Darnassus?

Scepter of the Tides? Lost that.

Well you did steal it to begin with, we just reclaimed it.

The Zandalari Fleet? Nope Alliance destroyed that.

After it destroyed the Alliance fleet…

Derek Proudmoore? Nope Alliance has him as well.

Because Syvalans decided to play “hide his free will” with him. If he was treated like a Forsaken upon being raised, he would still be with your side but instead of giving him the very thing that makes the Forsaken different then the scourge she tried to deny him his free will.

Both Shaw and Blightcaller say the Alliance is about to win.

Wait, you mean two Alliance characters think they are going to win! Well I guess the war is over!!!

Clearly Horde is on top here.

And clearly you have blinders on.

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

And the NEs lost probably three times as much in land alone. Hell you could actually move back into the Undercity some day in the future. Can you same the same for Darnassus?

That is irrelevant. This is about those calling UC a victory.

Well you did steal it to begin with, we just reclaimed it.

So again horde war campaign defeat.

After it destroyed the Alliance fleet…

Your few ships was not “the alliance fleet”. On the other had the lore is the Zandalari fleet is gone while you have the Alliance and KT fleets.

Because Syvalans decided to play “hide his free will” with him. If he was treated like a Forsaken upon being raised, he would still be with your side but instead of giving him the very thing that makes the Forsaken different then the scourge she tried to deny him his free will.

How does this change the outcome?

Wait, you mean two Alliance characters think they are going to win! Well I guess the war is over!!!

Blightcaller in not in the alliance… We are talking about the top intelligence officers for each side.

And clearly you have blinders on.

Perpetual alliance victimhood. Has to turn even winning into losing.

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

Win the war and get revenge is not the same.

why should we not take revenge?

[Normercy-aggramar (Normercy)]

Shhhh … he thinks you guys are actually forging your own destiny. AKA:This is real.

[Caelin-boulderfist (Caelin)]

Your few ships was not “the alliance fleet”. On the other had the lore is the Zandalari fleet is gone while you have the Alliance and KT fleets.

The entire reason we venture to Kul Tiras is for their fleet because our was destroyed. That much is made clear when we are sent there. The Zand wiped out most of what we had left at that point.

How does this change the outcome?

You can’t whine about Derek not being on “your side” when he isn’t treated as such by Sylvanas. If she had not played around with trying to break his free will he probably would still be there.

Perpetual alliance victimhood. Has to turn even winning into losing.

I didn’t turn any win into losing. I totally think we are winning right now but the Horde were winning up until BoD. Sorry if you thought this was “World of Warcraft: The Horde Wins”…

[Drougen-emerald-dream (Drougen)]

And none of that wouldn’t have happened if you hadn’t invaded the NE lands, burned their cities to the ground and killed hundreds of civilians. Oh and then started raising them into undeath.

You reap what you sow.

Yup, It’s called war. That’s how war works. The horde and alliance have been fighting since they’ve known each other…

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

Wait, you mean two Alliance characters think they are going to win! Well I guess the war is over!!!

I didn’t turn any win into losing. I totally think we are winning right now

Then why the previous comment? Also ignoring that it was high ranking on both sides who think the Alliance are winning.

[Kirela-arygos (Kirela)]

I dunno honestly. Shes the one who was obsessed with Illidan and was there for the whole DH thing. She probably is in charge or whatever.