whats the problem? that you will need to put in work for an alt to be as powerful as your main?
i get the feeling i’m gonna be stuck playing Sophie’s Choice with covenants. =/
do i pick the one with useful soulbinds
do i pick the one with the ‘best’ class ability
do i pick the one with the ‘best’ covenant ability
do i pick the one that gives access to the legendary i want.
do i pick the one that i think looks pretty
and at the end of the day, knowing myself, my choice will likely go towards the one that offers the best performance for content i want to do.
i feel thats gonna to leave me somewhat bitter for an expansion. already looking through them, the covenant i like the look of isn’t the one that gives me the abilities or soulbinds i’d get the most use out of. so right out the gate its looking like i’ll be picking a covenant i’ve got no interest in just because i’d like a skip and a cheat death 
I think the issue is that the system was first designed with some gameplay-altering mechanics in mind (Signature and Class abilities, basically). They developed the software and tools to develop these systems and by the time we get to playtest it, these core systems are effectively set in stone. In a sense, designer’s choice.
And to be honest, most hardcore progression players don’t care about RPG elements. If they feel forced into a choice, the content should still attempt to be fun for them. For the overwhelming majority of players, they just want something fun to do in their spare time. Being able to pick a Covenant and swap easily to a new one will be more than enough. If someone wants to swap back, it’ll be harder, but ultimately, it makes sense.
Towards the end of Beta is when the majority of tuning takes place. What makes you feel they’re giving up?
Explained here 
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If they truly are within 0.1% and 0.2% then you’re right and it’ll be fine. That being said… Having looked at them… some of them are so insanely out of balance that it sorta boggles the mind. Compare a Necrolord Arcane mage against a Venthyr Arcane mage. One has access to an ability that literally doubles their burst during cleave. The other has an ability that’s virtually useless in almost all PvE scenarios (outside of very niche points).
Maybe that’s an example of one of those outliers that need reined in. I don’t know. If they truly are as inconsequential as races, then I’m completely behind you. But from what I’ve seen… I have a hard time buying that.
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it’s seemingly alt friendly though
Welcome to basically every expansion except WoD.
Blizzard hates alts.
This is the case at this time. Basically here’s how “pre-tuning” works:
- Is it overtuned to the point it trivializes content, and makes your test data bad? --> Nerf it.
- Is it undertuned to the point where you outright avoid it, and makes your test data bad? --> Buff it.
- Is it poorly balanced but not offending your data too much? --> Leave it alone for now.
Once we get into the full swing of Beta, tuning will take place, figure in a 2 months for major changes and a bunch of tweaking until Mythic opens up.
I hope so. Personally, I’m super excited for Shadowlands, and think a lot of the covenant specific stuff looks neat. But if it does turn out to be the crap shoot that I’m worried about… I’ll be pretty darn disappointed.
Nothing has been revealed to indicate what will or wont be friendly to multiple classes yet.
Multiple specs are not an issue though, that we know for sure, and haven’t been since Legion.
As long as you don’t expect your alts to be as powerful as your main for half the work, this expansion shouldn’t slow you down though.
Seems like they are trying to get out ahead of all the complaining and are putting in systems that can act as catch ups as early as launch.
They even said things like Legendary patterns are earned account wide.
I’m not sure where you got this idea. It looks like it’ll be rather friendly. The only thing you’ll need to get up is Anima power but they’d aid they are implementing a catch up for it immedietly.
This reads more like blanket statements without concrete evidence to support these claims. Having systems in and of itself does not mean it’s defacto alt-unfriendly.
There’s catch-ups, there’s being able to skip covenant stuff once you have completed something the first time, and there’s unlimited Torghast runs. Unless those are bad too just because they happen to be systems.
it’s like people are just trying to fight the “system” just cuz “the man” is always trying to put you down for no reason.
I didn’t say it was alt unfriendly. I said it was unfriendly to people that want to optimally play multiple specs on a single character.
It’s plenty alt friendly. 
Not really, because a player will still have to PvE for the best gear for PvP.
That’s highly subjective and yet to be seen.
We will ultimately have to try the beta first. But with many unpruned abilities now being across multiple specs, and with the plethora of alt catch-up, one would think that a conglomerate of systems that could benefit multiple characters could just as easy benefit one character with multiple specs.
You’re right. We could just accept that everything will be as perfectly balanced as Legion legendaries, azerite traits, essences, corruptions…
It is highly unlikely things will be remotely balanced. Even at the start, every choice will have drawbacks.
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those particular words or even that particular argument are not points I was even close to making.
First off we have to try the beta. Otherwise it’s just pointless connect and skepticism.
Second, making broad blanketed statements about how alt / spec is inherently unfriendly can without receipts will yield the same end rest of acting like everything is going to be perfectly fine and flawlessly balanced without showing the receipts or providing examples.
Neither of which were points I was trying to make.
You may feel you need to try the beta. Others are not limited to that choice.
I have actually heard people say that it is not fair to pass judgment on BfA until after the expansion has ended. Would you agree?
I don’t know, I have not really seen anything as “alt unfriendly”…
Honestly, my only concern right now is how “spec swapping” unfriendly conduits (I think that’s what they are called, still trying to memorize terminology) currently feel. I feel like Slootbag, after he finished his interview where he asked about it, made a very good argument on why conduit farming was bad.
I have several friends who do M+ frequently and often times fill different rolls. one run they could be going in on a Tank and then the next they are DPS. Needless to say they are not fans of Azerite respeccing and it constantly having an increasing price, but at least that was something you could get around by getting multiple sets of Azerite.
With conduits (again, hope its the right word) you are put into a position where if you change them, because you want to go from tanking focused ones to dps focused ones, will destroy your old ones so if you want to go back to what you had previously you have to re-farm them.
That is honestly my only major gripe with Shadowlands right now is that the idea behind it really sucks in my opinion. Luckily for me I only plan to play Enhancement all expansion as I have no interest in Resto or Elemental but if I were still a Paladin and liked all 3 of my specs this would honestly suck.
So, while I have yet to see anything that really looks “alt unfriendly” I am worried about the ease, or lack there of, of spec swapping in Shadowlands effectively with conduits being destroyed when swapped out.
Sloot, as mentioned since it was discussed in his interview, after the interview made a good suggestion that swapping specs swapped conduits and I really hope Blizzard considers that.
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I hate seeing this argument, because I’m not a hardcore player. Hardcore players are, by no means, the only people that have problems with this system. I want to have fun gameplay. I also want to have a fun aesthetic. If I am locked out of one or the other, that’s no fun. The current implementation of covenants is not fun. It actually actively feels bad.
Current isn’t classic, for good reason. Classic is archaic in design, and people not playing it don’t want archaic game design.