He’s less devoted to her than… yeah, every single night elf in Darkshore who seem to take their orders from the Sentinels who are practically a religious order.
I guess you had quite a long conversation with him to know about his convictions then. I guess if he has no black eyes it must be because of personal believes.
All night elf society is religious, as a druid he is too.
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I agree that Tyrande is the natural and best option. She should be doing what she did against Elisande - leading her Elves in a coalition of Elves. Maybe Blizzard felt that has been done already… Lord knows Blizzard would never repeat an expansions arc …
(/cough MoP2).
But that is another tale. We basically want an entirely different story than what Blizzard is presenting (Shocking, I know). In the context of the current tale - Shandris makes sense enough.
In one way, Shandris represents Night Elves who were too young to know Azshara, or Night Elves who never knew her. In a small way, it broadens Azshara’s scope to have everyone there be viewed as “less than equal in her majesty”.
Tyrande being there would make it a Former Queen of the Night Elves vs the Current Specifically NON -Queen Female Ruler of the Night Elves. It is a different dynamic.
Trust me - I would love to see Tyrande make a few angry speeches at Azshara and Lorthemar and Thalyssra. I would love to see her riding Malfurion in his aquatic form and leading Elves of every make and model in a charge against Azshara.
Shandris being there instead of Tyrande is not ideal to me. But Shandris is alright. I think I see some merit in this decision by Blizz.
This too.
We should probably take Blizzard at their word. That Tyrande had her revenge against the Horde. She is probably moon bathing in Horde blood. Sated and content. But I think Tyrande’s absence might mean she has another role to play.
She could kill Horde leaders who rebel against Sylvanas without knowing or caring that the rebellion is growing.
She could be instigating more aggression and savagery against the Horde, while the other more calm leaders try to reign her in.
Or…she could be satisfied with retaking her lands. She could lead the Night Elves as an example of justice seekers who will hold their blade when justice has been met. She could become a paragon of: “I put aside the worst atrocities to forge a new peace. So if you are still mad at the Horde, put it aside.”
I think she has a role to play by the end of BfA. She really needs to, even if its not 8.2 and Azshara. But maybe Blizzard is telling us ahead of time that she is back on the shelf for a while, so we can stop hoping for it, and focus on what ever story they want to tell.
Not all believe to the same depth and fervor. Both Sira and Daerlyn in fact, rejected Elune before they died. Even in the old Kal’dorei empire, it’s a pretty safe bet that most of the Highborne rejected the cult of Elune.
Shandris is a contemporary of Tyrande, she dates from WOTA as well.
Did she actually lead that coalition, or did she stand with Liadrin behind the Champion? At some point, I’m going to have to move a Horde through that storyline.
Shandris was not a contemporary of Tyrande’s during the WoA when Azshara was defeated. Shandris was a child, an orphan, when she met Tyrande.
Shandris was but a child during the War of the Ancients. While Tyrande was the POTM. Tyrande was an adult.
Shandris only could see and deal with Azshara as a child could. And now she is grown. Which is in itself a different dynamic to play off. Azshara is the cause of Shandris losing her parents. Azshara was probably the cause of many of her child hood nightmares. And now Shandris is grown, and can face her.
No. I said:
Leading her Elves in a coalition of Elves, if that emphasis makes it clearer. She led Her Elves in the coalition of Elves that formed.
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I’ve run a toon of both factions through that Surumar story, and the relationship between the elves is … interesting. The best way I can say it is, Liadrin and Rommath seem to take an immediate vested interest in the Nightborne as a people (there are several major reasons for this); while Tyrande (I couldn’t just shake this feeling) she seemed more invested in helping the NB to defeat the Legion. And beyond that there didn’t seem to be a motivation or goal.
While her behavior and mistrust is understandable, comparing Tyrande’s interactions with the NBs to Liadrin’s interactions with them … there is a deliberate mechanical distance maintained on the Tyrande side. It comes off as a bit more of a “working” relationship, one with a clear goal in mind … and aiding the NBs in their rebellion was merely a means to that Legion defeating goal. I guess that’s why I totally buy the NBs joining their “cousins” instead of their “siblings”.
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From the Alliance side, she repeatedly tells the hero that she wants to recruit the Nightborne primarily to reduce Kal’dorei casualties. She has no particuar interest in them as a people even though it’s her old home town.
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Liadrin is the exact opposite. She wants the Horde PC to do everything they can to remind the Nightborne that help is coming; to bolster their spirits. She also claims her reasoning for this is that she (and the BEs) understand more than anyone how horrific the effects of mana-withdrawal are; and comprehend the utter despair that comes with the betrayal of a beloved leader to the forces of the Fel. Rommath in contrast is just fanboying out about the Arcane Civilization, and can cannot wait to have a chance to discuss and learn from his Nightborne cousins.
Tyrande is essentially given a minor villain bat to justify the Nightborne becoming a Horde faction.
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I mean … until you realize that her treatment of the NBs is totally in character for her? It is true that Surumar (at least in the beginning) sided with Azshara; its a civilization riddled with surviving Highborne; and one that in its 10k years of isolation drifted away from Elune cultural worship (its still there I would guess, just less prominent) and FURTHER towards investing in the Arcane.
Tyrande is MASSIVELY suspicious (even now) about Elves and Arcane use. She’s also mistrustful of Highborne. She may never be to such extremes as Maiev is, but she’s certainly in no way as moderate on the topic as Malfurion is these days. While I would never state she hates the Nightborne, there was enough of a reason for her to have that underlying justifiable contempt and mistrust (and that opened the door for the BEs to open up relations with the NBs).
This doesn’t even get into the reality that the NBs and BEs just do have more shared cultural norms than the NEs and NBs do atm (which, yes, despite the generational drift … is true).
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Being rightfully suspicious of the people who actively assisted the Legion’s first invasion right up until almost the end of the war, only withdrew their support on Elisande’s selfish reasoning that she didn’t want a Legion portal uglying up her beautiful city, and “resisted” by hiding behind a barrier, instead of actively fighting, and leaving the rest of the world to burn, is not a “villain bat” of any description.
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I did Suramar as a Night Elf before I did it on the Horde as a Blood Elf.
I totally agreed with Tyrande’s attitude towards the Nightborn. Suramar hid itself away and refused to aid the rebels against Azshara in the War of the Ancients. Which led to the Legion taking control of the city after 10,000 years, anyway. The people of Suramar City were selfish feckless cowards. Better to have them die as a form of contrition and recompense, instead of her Kaldorei.
I agreed with Tyrande and I did not see her actions as villainous. But I also agree with Sylvanas often, so…
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I was kind of in-between. I felt for the plight of the Nightborne, especially the lower castes. But, I also agreed with Tyrande’s suspicions and attitude.
It’s my understanding that they’re trying to add some altruism to Thalyssra’s reasoning for going along with the barrier in 8.2. But, it falls flat for me. Even if Thalyssra had good intentions, it was Elisande’s call, not hers. And we know Elisande’s motives: she didn’t want a Legion portal in Suramar.
Honestly, for a society as built around political maneuvering as the Nightborne’s was, I expected far more betrayal, and felt it was underplayed. I expected as least one of the merry band of rebels we were gathering up to backstab us, with disasterous results. By the very nature of the rebellion, we’re shown that the altruistic streak in Thalyssra (and, presumably, the remaining and playable Nightborne) is the exception, not the rule. Or, at least it was, until we killed off most of the opposing side.
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Well, it is amazing what going through massive mana withdrawal, ultimately resulting in identity death will do to someone to inspire a certain element of loyalty. Especially when the alternative would simply being shackled to the very same person that denied access to you’re required magic sustenance in the first place. Desperation, despair, and ravenous hunger caused by the very person you might betray Thalyssra for … thats a hard bargain to sell to anyone.
Outside of that … I do question why exactly people thought the NBs WOULDN’T get closer to the BEs after Legion? The BEs were open to relations; have many shared cultural norms with the NBs; have several key shared experiences in recent history; and did not have the same inhibitions about the NBs that the NEs did under Tyrande (since she is the chief political leader AND core religious authority of her people … and holds a metric ton of sway).
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Well, with the hindsight of Allied Races, and the faction war of BfA, it’s obvious to me.
But, in the moment I expected them to go neutral. To honor the Horde and Alliance forces that died to liberate them and their city. To act as a go-between, bridging the Night Elves and the Blood Elves post-Legion, as one of our many neutral background races.
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Well, neutrality is only beneficial if you actually gain something from it … and at least prior to the WoT the Nightborne were looking to start reintegrating with the world they’ve long since isolated themselves (and, if not necessarily the Horde, the Blood Elves themselves were a very easy method to help aid with that journey; primarily because of those shared experiences and willingness).
TBH … its not the fact that they joined the BEs in the Horde that’s the problem; its that they joined the Horde so quickly … and a Horde under Sylvanas Windrunner. Even by the end of Legion, I sort of got the impression that the BEs and NBs would start building in-roads with each-other (it just happened far, FAR too unnaturally fast just to fill that forced Allied Race concept).
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As much as I understood where Tyrande is coming from, she’s not the only facet of Night Elven culture. I guess part of it was also my futile hope that the Shen’dralar would’ve been remembered and relevant. That in time (with the peace I assumed was coming after Legion), Mordent, Thalyssra, and Rommath (or Liadrin) could come to some kind of understanding.
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Yeah … it truly sucks. I was genuinely hoping for a period of time for us to rebuild and reconnect with our factions and individual PC races after Legion; but the moment I saw what they did with Sylvanas (especially in Stormheim) … I knew what Blizz had in store for my Faction … and the story going forward. She was still on her arc from “Edge of Night”.
Its part of the reason that shortly after Legion came out I rage-quit so hard I didn’t come back for months, because objectively (outside of Stormheim itself, which Jin would never have tolerated as Warchief) there is nothing Sylvie did during that expansion that he couldn’t have done. And, with Vol’jin being the moderate that he was, he would have focused on rebuilding his people’s after Legion (and at least have tried to foster a tentative peace with the Alliance).
They ONLY reason they would put someone as contentious as Windrunner as our Faction’s leader over Vol’jin was to stir up crap … and look at that, she did…
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