Expect? No. But on the other hand, if you don’t read up on what people actually want/are after because you can’t be bothered, then it kind of speaks for itself as to why noone takes your…arguments…seriously.
Besides, people who have a genuine interest in the playstyle, or at least the topic of RSV as a whole, I’d like to think that they’re interested in reading what it says.
You’re the one who made the “two button-spec” argument. Whether you want to read all of it or not, clearly you were dead wrong.
I would argue that even if you were to go with the idea of Black Arrow being an ability based on firing a magic shot, it still falls perfectly within the theme of RSV as a “munitions expert”(as realised in WoW).
Nothing says that we as the characters are the ones to infuse the projectile with said magic. In fantasy/Lore, we might just be hiring a schooled magician to do it for us, or just straight up buy the already infused projectile.
I’d even argue that any ability that’s based on firing the ranged weapon fits better than the idea of putting it down only to instead throw a bomb/grenade.
You asked for data on how Survival is a high skill cap class, I’ve provided you with data that proves that exactly, the spec is able to get rank 1 on the ladder in multiple regions whilst being regarded as a joke by the community and being underplayed. That is the definition of a high skill cap class, a class that can be #1 by a mile when in the hands of the right player.
In a discussion about whether Survival should remain melee we generally aren’t interested in how competitive it is
You proved you’re only here to larp about your own ideas and problems with survival with this and not here to actually contribute. Unironically saying “The data doesn’t matter, just how I feel”
Why don’t you put down the 3 button rotation BM and give a more challenging spec a go? I hated survival when I first started playing it but now I’ll never play another spec. I know it’s hard having to do more than 3 buttons from range whilst pets do the work but trust me it’s worth it!
I must admit: when you said “Survival is fine the way it is” I wasn’t expecting you to be talking about the performance of the spec because that’s a non sequitur. It doesn’t make sense to be using the spec’s performance to justify why it should have been change to melee and why it should remain that way. It is in fact underplayed and largely relegated to pariah status. The fact that this remains the case despite Survival evidently being competitive in PvP should tell you it isn’t “fine the way it is”. Ranged Survival was also a monster in PvP and had something like double the representation of melee Survival in rated PvP (patch 6.2 v.s. 8.3).
No, this is not an argument that the data doesn’t matter. Representation matters a lot. What doesn’t matter is performance. As I’ve said about three times already, it’s easy to make a spec performant. That doesn’t grant merit to Survival being a melee spec. If they buffed Survival by 50% and it became by far the best spec in the game at everything that would still got give it any more merit. Making it melee and keeping it that way is a bad idea due to a list of reasons independent of how the spec performs; many of which have been detailed in this thread.
I actually play Marksmanship primarily but this is pretty big talk from someone who’s been playing the game for less than a year, has been playing Survival (a 4 button spec) for most of that time, and hasn’t done a shred of competitive content whatsoever. Maybe if you played the 3 button BM for longer than a couple weeks you might have eventually cleared a +15 and not bricked nearly every +10 you participated in. Who knows.
Too elitist? Don’t try to get patronising over challenge in a game where you’ve encountered none.
I do not PvE on this character and don’t care about it. PvE is entirely about the numbers blizzard has entered into the game.
I’ve played MoP survival on servers just to see all the hype and the current version is far more evolved. That’s probably because we’re coming up on 10 years later. People larping for a 10 year old outdated spec after all this time is hilarious.
Just add Black Arrow to current survival, that should make you guys happy right?
High skill cap is requiring more skill than others to achieve similar results. Or having a higher skill ceiling. What you described above could just be an unpopular spec (due to non-skill related factors) being good.
In short, something being unpopular doesn’t prove it has a high skill cap. Even if it succeeds in some content.
Most high rated Hunter players will agree with me, this is not something that can be objectively proven like 2 + 2. We can play semantics all you want, but it is the truth. Sorry if you disagree, a majority of people in this thread haven’t played surv since legion prepatch and don’t want to give a melee class any consideration.
I’m glad melee survival is here and here to stay. Thank you blizzard!
Unpopular amongst hunters because many hunters like to relax and do other things whilst playing boring broken fall asleep simulator 3 button BM hunter.
Um no. It’s objectively unpopular with all WoW players. You could avail yourself of any of the resources to educate yourself on this, but I imagine that’s not your style.
The only thing the current SV has over MoP SV is spec-unique talents. Before Legion the talents were shared and generalised across all three specs. We never got a ranged SV with spec-unique talents so there’s no point of comparison there, although at least this meant ranged SV never depended on particular talent choices to complete the intended spec design like melee SV does.
Otherwise ranged SV had a more coherent toolkit with sensible interactions between abilities unlike the current SV and its abilities actually interact with one another. As opposed to current SV it had meaningful improvement and involvement of traps, it logically built off the base class, it didn’t excessively depend on the identity and toolkit of another spec, and most importantly: it was ultimately played and enjoyed by a large audience and wasn’t regarded as the circus freak of class design. This is all because it was the product of iterative design from a team much more interested in creating good classes than Legion onwards where it’s mostly just throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks with no plan or philosophy beyond “OMG melee Hunter!”. Some “evolution”, alright…
Must have: ranged weapon, zero dependence on melee
Should have: no dependence on BM stuff, a central focus on Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, Lock and Load and something to base it on (Black Arrow and/or Wildfire Bomb)
Yes, because we did not play this class to play melee. Unlike you, most of the people in this thread have been playing the class for a much longer time, we picked it up when it was all ranged, and many of us picked Survival as our main spec. Don’t act like we’re in the wrong for not wanting to play melee, and don’t act like this is a “live and let live” issue.
FYI this snobbery is very common for even inexperienced and unskilled SV Hunters like yourself and it’s a big part of why the spec gets a bad reputation.
I never claimed to be top 1% pvp, that’s pretty rich coming from a PvE player though.
Melee survival is here to stay cry is free you can’t play a melee class.
FYI this snobbery is very common for even inexperienced and unskilled SV Hunters like yourself and it’s a big part of why the spec gets a bad reputation.
Literally every single high rated BM players will say the same thing, it’s a meme at this point. BM literally doesn’t even press kill command in arenas anymore.
Ask me if I care
In a discussion about whether Survival should remain melee we generally aren’t interested in how competitive it is.
Even funnier he compares opinions I had of the class in classic and uses it for retail arguments despite them being different games. Literally why I cant take him seriously.
There’s a big difference between preferring a skill-capped spec and declaring that all Hunters are stupid and that’s why they won’t play Survival.
FYI, as I stated in my very first response to you yet you’ve ignored it the entire time, a ranged spec can be skill capped as well. Stop equating melee with skill caps. When it comes to Survival the people who want it to be ranged generally aim towards a multidotting, funnel-cleaving spec which is usually a great way to have a skill cap within a ranged spec. You have a habit of associating positive aspects of SV with being melee when they’re largely in spite of being melee and not because of it.
Metroid hasn’t just changed his opinion. He’s outright changed his perspective on the facts. He started off by saying Survival was never meant to be a melee spec but now he’s saying that Survival has been melee-oriented from the start. Aside from that, even from the subjective side it doesn’t add up. He found Marksmanship so repulsive so he stuck to ranged SV because he loved its toolkit… until suddenly now he declares them to be the same thing. What about all those years he played SV over MM specifically because it wasn’t the same thing in his eyes? There’s changing your opinions over time, and then there’s cognitive dissonance.
Oh I’m sorry, I must’ve misunderstood you when you said these things…
Metroid in 2019 about SV in Vanilla/Classic:
You’re really essentially like a hybrid of melee and ranged dps, but you want to stay at ranged dps, you don’t really want to be up close on the enemy. And if you do, the whole point of the spec is to utilize your chances of getting the hell outta there. People who want to just play the spec only to melee, you’re kinda playing the wrong class for that. You should probably play like a Warrior or a Rogue or something.
Metroid in 2021:
But the thing is that Survival for the most part has always been a melee-spec. It’s been like that since Vanilla. Like, if you look at the old talent trees back from Classic, it’s literally aimed towards, you know, keeping yourself alive but also focusing on melee instead of ranged offensive abilities.
You posted your second video in 2021, where you said that SV has “for the most part been a melee-spec since Vanilla, up until 2021”. There’s no twisting of opinions here. It’s just factually wrong. Something you’ve already talked about yourself in the past.
And not only that, you use these arguments of the historic design, twisted as they are, and attempt to apply them to conversations where you say that RSV shouldn’t be brought back.
In short, you make arguments of objectivity towards class design, what it should or shouldn’t be, despite how you contradict yourself at every turn.