It’s a lot rarer when there’s an objective - and that’s ranking - that the vast majority of players are partaking in. That’s the opposite of vanilla.
Winning isn’t everything. Not losing is important too…and those are not the same thing. Stormpike should be as impenterable to horde attack as iceblood is to Alliance attack.
It will be a slog to fight your way through, but that is what it takes…Alliance strongest points are backloaded while hordes are front loaded. Frost wolf graveyard is a complete joke.
But if the mindset is that you’ve lost when you’re been pushed back to your strongest points…then you’ll find a way to make that come true.
I’ll be in arenas killing blood elves.
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Why are you guys arguing with Pollz? He is one of the most well known trolls on the forum. He has not had a single good faith argument in all of his thousands of posts.
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Were all having good talks. No one is insulting anyone. And I haven’t been on the forums in months, how can I be one of the most well known trolls? Rofl.
good…
very good…
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A bit different in TBC as a defensive battle can actually WIN YOU THE GAME unlike in classic.
So sure I can see your point if this was TBC but it’s not.
Now like I said before Alliance TBC AV is gonna be fun. It should be really good matches, as long as they start with both 2.3 and 2.4 changes in the game for AV.
Let’s just assume the current version of the map was fair…through what ever means you want. Cave, whatever.
Some of those games you will be pushed back into stormpike. Would the correct move be to run and get scraps of honor/rep before it ends… or fight and defend? I would argue that fighting and defending is the correct choice on that version of the map. And I cannot see why it’s not the correct thing to do on this map.
Every fair game will have a back-and-forth to it, but it feels like Alliance are simply conceding instantly once stonehearth is lost. Sure you’re not winning in that instant, but even in a magic perfectly balanced version of the map you will be losing stonehearth by definition.
Sure you’re on the back foot, but that does not mean you have lost. It just means you have to focus on not-losing in the moment so you can then push forward.
Yes because losing SH is the point where the game is over.
That alliance seem to understand this and you don’t…
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Even in a 100% balanced map, you will lose stonehearth. You have not lost the game.
Telling yourself you lost the game is a great way to lose a game you actually have not lost yet. None of the Alliance seem to get that.
Actually, I give the Alliance more credit than that. They know they have a chance, but they know it’s less effort and more rep to quit than putting in the effort.
There is literally no back and forth once SHGY is gone. Sure we can turtle but you’re also forgetting that we had 0 control of FOS.
SPGY isn’t just under attack by horde players, you also have the bat dudes bombing is and you usually only got SHGY from us because you summoned Frost boi.
With all that against us defending is just useless.
The only game I have won on my hunter, as this mage didn’t do AV, but my hunter is going for the ring and cheaper epic mount, anyway the only game I have won was us owning SHGY for 1 hour and 23 minutes. Horde summoned Lol and we killed him at SHGY while killing the horde, then we pushed south and won.
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Yes you would, and in a 100% balanced map losing SHGY wouldn’t be a near certain loss condition.
Trust me, I understand it really feels that way. But you have a team full of people like Ziryus who will instantly concede the moment stonehearth is lost. At that point it’s no longer a 40 on 40. I would consider you lucky if you had even 30 people on your team trying at that point…and I can’t imagine you could get anything done with 25% of your team tapping out.
I can imagine how utterly frustrating that is, but you have to also imagine how hard anything would seem if a significant chunk of your team just stopped trying the instant stonehearth is gone.
I am completely open to the idea that the map has problems, but I also believe there never has been a point where the Alliance had a full team of 40 people trying to win since premades died. And that until you have a team full of people playing to win, you can’t really make any meaningful observations about the map.
For me, I played my heart out in my AVs, trying to win even though it was pointless. I was one of the folks encouraging my team to try different things to see if the game could go differently. When it didn’t, I was also one of the folks stealthing up to kill LTs, trying to get my team that last ditch bit of honour, even after I had gotten revered, to help out.
By contrast, in PvE, I participate in trivial fight mechanics (by today’s standards), and I am now decked out in raid gear.
As I said, you can define effort in different ways from different perspectives. For me, that healing offhand is probably the single most effort I’ve put into a piece of gear… or anything in WoW, except maybe my Monk tanking legion artifact appearance from the mage tower.
I say this to relate my perspective to you, in the hopes that you understand the reasoning behind my statements.
woohoo can’t wait to see how horribly wrong these changes go
Yeah, I am glad I spent 4-5 days getting AV out of the way on my alts before premades were cancelled.
I couldn’t imagine bothering now. On the plus side, lots of ZG gear is almost equivalent so it’s not as much of a big deal to get the rep anymore.
Good. You rep farmers are the literal bottom dwelling scum of pvp. Forcing people into super long matches so you can farm rep when you have insta q’s is selfish and downright stupid. Maybe you should attempt to win or something.
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/afk out and grab a snack when AV is no longer rewarding.
My alt won earlier and here is what we did. We won the shgy fight and had rogues and stealthies go south to mess with horde towers. Always brings back a few hordies. We had a few defending dB which is also critical because it seemed like they were always there. I think they tried zerging us and it didn’t work. Once they were thinned out at shgy and pushed back to sfgy that gave us a lane to summon the the tree. Pretty much only way to summon it since. It’s out in the open.
We bugged the tree and killed ice daddy once they summoned it. We then Used the tree to clear our way to ibgy/fwgy, without touching sfgy. We did give up shgy but by then it was too late. Also we had 3 times as many hks as them.
Once alliance see that they can actually win, they will try more in that av. Just let horde have sfgy, that is key. Use the scorched earth mentality against them. They want all gys. Sfgy for horde is not a desirable gy for them to have. It takes away their cave Rez when they r trying to Zerg ibgy. Let them have shgy. Also, it forces them through a choke if they want to get ibgy back. They could trinket back to base and run from there but that takes time and is not well coordinated. If you then take soft cap something else, it really distracts them.
All in all it might have just been that we were better than them but I sincerely believe that letting horde have sfgy is key to an alliance victory.
Think objectively for moment.
The Red team argument: We’re actually really fantastic players and we’re significantly smarter than those of you who picked the blue team. We know all the best strats and we know for a fact that if you guys tried and employed all of our superior strats you would win 50% of the time. Trust us, we are smarter and better players than you are. Sorry you guys are dumb dumbs but that is the reason for our 99% win ratio. It’s a little known fact that 99% of smart people would choose a red team over a blue team in clinical studies.
Blue team: There are external factors that explain a large win disparity.
Seriously, which argument is more likely to be true?