Followed by a certain poster spam reporting people who disagree with them getting them flagged instantly. I wonder if he got a time out from doing this, I haven’t had a post flagged today yet. Wonder where he is.
1 Like
Excuse me, I’m rocking Rep and Reck spec. Fite me, silly meta warrior!
The issue stems from the fact that there’s no thought required for your spec anymore. Whatever pressure a player might have felt between exploring a spec that suited their playstyle and just paying the respec fee to be the best is just gone now. In most guilds, any ret paladin is just going to be expected to heal now. There’s no more “making it work”. The pressure to play optimally in a game where optimal play is simply not required has increased.
I understand, and respect, that you enjoy having dual spec. If you don’t value that kind of adversity as a driver for choice and exploration, it’s an entirely positive change to your gameplay experience. Just the same as there are those who don’t value spending time in the open world and think that the RDF would be a positive change to Era.
I don’t expect you to align with us on this, just the same as I don’t expect Blizzard to revert the change. You have your beliefs and values and they’re just not going to be the same as mine. That’s ok. I do think it would be good for you to make an effort to understand why people feel like it’s a bad thing, though. Understanding and agreeing are not the same thing and I think a lot of people forget that these days.
2 Likes
I guess this is an issue if your end game is only pve in a “dad” guild that allows meme specs. Anyone trying to parse is probably min/maxing with their gear and spec, so they would already be raiding as a “meta” spec.
I do not understand why a pvp focused player would be upset about dual spec.
I understand if you don’t like dual spec specifically just for the game ‘feeling’ less vanilla, but I just do not buy things like this.
If a raid is allowing for a ret paladin to be in there, they are allowing them with or without dual spec. Dual spec changes nothing about these raids. If they wanted their ret to go holy, they would have told him to go holy. The difference between someone swapping specs in the world and going to town to swap specs is not going to magically make these raid groups no longer accept ret paladins.
2 Likes
Because all you see is the convenience and what it means to you. Empathy is a difficult thing, I guess. I acknowledge that it’s not easy to see things from my perspective and to understand why I value something that you do not, but unless you make an effort to do this, we won’t really get anywhere with this conversation.
It’s not my goal to convince you that you should agree with me so I think it’s best if we just move on. No harm, no foul. I’m glad you’re enjoying dual spec 
I suspect every ret, feral, boomy, shadow, ele, and enhance is going to have to find their own way through this. I think you’re taking me as a binary here though, which is not what I said and certainly not what I intended.
I said the pressure to play optimally has increased, and that is true. The simple truth is that there is now an easier path than there was before. This applies to everybody and we’ll all have to make our own decision as to whether or not we want to take it, and how.
Speaking entirely for myself, I know I’m certainly going to feel additional pressure to have a heal spec on deck for fights where ret just doesn’t work out, whereas before I would just heal as ret, swap to my resto druid, or explore creative ways to just make it work. I will find my own way through this.
1 Like
I keep seeing people say this but they aren’t explaining exactly why. They are just saying it to say it and it doesn’t even make sense.
Here, let me give you an example here. Let’s say tomorrow they released an update where all gear had class requirements and dps gear didn’t allow rets to put them on and they could just put on healing gear. I could easily say “Look this is going to push all paladins toward being holy, because this change makes it so they don’t have any option to even equip dps gear”. Or maybe an example like this, lets say there’s a random change where the gargoyle trash mobs in nax will start regening their health unless every single raid dps does a certain amount of damage. Then I could easily point to “Well this will cause raids to not want to bring these specs anymore because they won’t be able to even clear trash mobs because their dps is too low and you can’t carry them through it”.
These are only examples I just made up to illustrate that if I am saying something will happen I can have a concrete reasoning behind why I think it will happen.
The addition of dual spec does not change of the scenarios you are laying out imo. If this were the case the guilds would have already told them to respec into holy. Dual spec isn’t going to magically change their minds and go “Oh you know what? You need to go holy now because you have the option to swap specs…well you already had to option to swap specs but you can swap specs out doors now so go holy”.
I mainly play my priest as shadow but raid as a healer. Shaman I can normally get away with playing as 30/0/21 in healing gear for raids, but will now have a resto heavy build. My druid is almost always feral or balance (non boomkin) for pvp but always respeced to resto for raids.
Let’s also be honest, how many raid groups are going to require people to have two pve min/maxed talent builds? Very few. Thus, the average Joe’s likely worst case scenario will be having a “collect loot/gold from a raid” spec and a farming or pvp spec.
I mean, I gave you an example of why, relevant to me and my own experiences. I said before, but I think you’re being too binary, or maybe just not understanding the statement.
Feeling that pressure doesn’t mean it’s required, and that pressure doesn’t even have to come externally. It is a more difficult choice than it was before. For some people, at least.
It certainly does and I did my best to relate to you as to why. Heads up though, your subsequent statement that follows what I quoted is a bit incorrect. Prior to dual spec there was no practical way to change specs between fights, now there is. This is additionally relevant to ret paladins (and presumably enhancement shaman), being the only melee dps in the game who use mana. There are at least 3 fights in Naxx where this is very harshly punished.
Speaking again for myself, I sometimes found ways to make that work and I sometimes would just heal. If I’m healing anyway, why would I not heal as holy if I have the option?
Dual spec is in the game and whether we like that or not, it has changed the game and the way we should be thinking about how we approach it. You can be willfully ignorant and just not do that, but you’re not really doing anybody any favours. For those who aren’t willfully ignorant, they will feel that additional pressure. It might come from a guild leader who wants the raid to go more easily, or it might come from ourselves and wanting to be more effective for the benefit of our team.
That pressure was there before, but it was mitigated by two factors, the respec cost and the travel required to see a trainer to change specs. Those two factors are now gone and so that pressure increases.
Except none of this happened on Anniversary, why would it magically happen on Era?
These spec are so bad, that if a group is bringing them into nax in the first place they certainly aren’t worried about boss specific mechanics that will make them even worse. I’m sorry but that’s just simply the case. No one is bringing a ret paladin and going “Man this fight is gunna be hard on you, maybe go holy for the next”, every single boss encounter is hard on a ret paladin, they do 1/10 of the damage as everyone else under the perfect scenario. EVERY fight would be better with them being holy.
That’s really the only argument that needs to be said imo.
I mean, you just made my point 
Those of us who enjoyed playing these classes had found our places where we could. We will still find our places, they will just be different. Life will move forward.
1 Like
I don’t think I did, unless you are just straight up agreeing with me lol.
Again, this didn’t happen on Anniversary, why would it happen on Era?
When I respond to these posts, I am merely trying to talk folks off the ledge. I do have the ability to see change as a slippery slope.
Though I have benefited from the new PvP system and welcome dual spec, I realize if there is a new change it may be something I dislike.
When era is a revolving door of class “balance” changes that make or break specs every month, flying mounts introduced, gdkp banned, alliance shamans and horde paladins, you all can be the ones telling me to calm down.
Let’s hope this never happens
I believe in the spirit of Classic (which i think dual spec violates), but I’m by no means a #nochanges person. Maybe #fewchanges? Or #necessarychangesonly lol. I’m in favour of things that will ensure the longevity of classic for those players who want to play it. This is why I’m such a strong advocate for the removal of honour breakpoints in PvP.
I’m not mad about dual spec… I’m just disappointed 
1 Like
dude why is spec diversity in a class a big deal
we are not the same 
you don’t understand why having two specs increases the pressure to play optimally? are you sure you aren’t just pretending not to get it
Every class already has the option to play 3 specs. I hate to be the bearer of bad news here.
Well I don’t raid with a guild, and happen to play classes that can heal. In order to more easily get a gdkp invite, I apply as a healer. It also acts as insurance to get a payout.
nobody had the ability to seamlessly switch between 2 specs until very recently again, i think you are pretending to not get this