They have the strongest with chaos brand.
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AMZ
Which is significantly weaker than blood and further pushes the need for a blood tank over any dps dk. DH has darkness, should they lose chaos brand too?
Shamans have defensive totems. Should they lose their new raid buff?
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I am going to once again point out to people that even though its a “raid” buff it has a large effect on which tanks and DPS are meta in keystones.
Even if blood is the best tank and UH/Frost are the best dps they will have to be significantly better than other specs to outweigh the value of a raid buff.
Even outside meta level play in pug keys why would you choose a DK over any other melee? Everything a DK has that a group could want another melee can do and usually better with the exception of us being possibly the tankiest spec outside of an immunity and while those other specs do the same jobs they also bring a buff.
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with the DS changes i dont think dps dk is as tanky as it used to be lowk.
also yea, no reason to bring a dk. they are making keys sweatier now too since there is a crest decrease when u dont time the key.
so why would you bring a dk? when you are safer bringing any other class in a pug enviroment.
for a dk to get invited to a key, it literally has to do the best dmg, or have like +200 io over what u would normally need to get in the key
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Going in with the intention of timing a key is not “sweaty”.
Let’s refrain from the toxic casual talk.
Absolutely true. I would prefer DKs got a defensive buff, but I would be open to offensive ones as well.
DKs are the other side of the coin from paladins, right? Since paladins bring a flat 3% DR to the raid, I think DKs should bring a flat 3% leech. Its both thematic to DKs and its a warped interpretation of what a paladin does.
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3% Leach would be nice to have
frost is cringe.
In pug keys, it doesn’t really matter. You have to have a leader who is so extremely anal on who gets invited and at a higher level key, you can’t always get a perfect group.
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Its not about perfect groups my point is that it lowers chances of getting invites because all other factors being equal you take the raid buff class because DPS are a dime a dozen and you can wait a minute for better chances at a fast successful clear.
I disagree that it will only be an issue at the higher key levels because the information about the value of raid buffs will disseminate to the lower levels over time and they will make choices based off of it because it will help them succeed and save them time farming gear and crests.
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Based on my personal experience in lower keys, I’m going to have to disagree that this type of thinking leaks into the lower levels mainly because I’ve mained lower tier specs like FDK and Survival since Shadowlands and I get into groups the same rate I would join if I was a non-meta spec.
I’ve noticed that iLvl, Raider IO and rating plays a far more bigger role than what your class can offer for the group. People in lower keys are playing russian roulette, are just quickly putting together a group that at the very least has BL and CR and then hoping for the best.
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Yeah I would agree with that. If your ilvl/io vastly out weighs the key level you are applying for, people will invite you.
But if you are applying for something in par with your level then you spec plays a big part of if you get invited. And it becomes more aggressive the higher the key.
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I don’t disagree with what you are saying but I think you’ve missed the part where I said “All other factors being equal.” meaning things like I-lvl and IO being close enough.
To boil down my overall point it comes down to if you play DK dps you will likely spend an indeterminate amount of time longer than other classes looking for groups. This may be 10 minutes more per weak it may be 5 hours. Its subject to too many variables to know without a huge data set, but I think it will effect all levels of play even M0.
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Yeah it sucks being an off meta spec .
Just gotta start your own groups and/or have some regulars you can roll with
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yeah , no1 likes pugging but when u gotta pug , its frustrating noneless
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It is the only reason I started to tank. At least then you get in groups fast.
At least currently, frost and UH are looking great tuning wise for mythic+ But tuning can change on a dime >_<.
old man voice Back in my day, our raiders had raid spots, specs are not people, and the players kept their spot because we enjoyed their company. If your being excluded based on your specs design, thats a guild leadership issue or a personality issue. Find players you vibe with and play what you like.
Unless your getting paid money to parse or down bosses, relax and enjoy the game.
hope not , some classes DESERVE its time on the sun too , DK being one.
I don’t think the conversation here is about kicking people who are already in groups. It’s more about the struggles of people who are looking for them. Both pug and recruitment wise.
Which is made more than a little more difficult by not having one of the buffs that makes people actively look for the class or spec when building those groups.
Its not like most people are going to avoid playing with my friends if they play DK DPS, they just aren’t going to recruit or invite any new ones.