So?
Oh a popularity contest now.
It does though if im not having a conversation with you you cant then say i was talking to you.
Thinking you have 0 responsibility in how others act towards you.
I asked a question, someone tried to pull the “you arent a raider” nonsense, and derailed the thread into this because they think everyone has to be grilled on their credentials when talking about anything.
If you cant talk about the content and can only talk about the person you need to grow up.
Are you actively or still mentally in high school? It was so painfully obvious that I was referring to the other two people having a common understanding while you interpreted everything much differently. What does popularity have to do with anything?
A forum is a public discussion place… The entire point is that anyone can join any discussion at any time. If you dont like others joining then ask Bloodronin to join a DM with you so you can hash it out.
Do you understand the concept of a mirror?
Stop being a coward and put us on ignore like you said you were going to instead of desperately fishing for the last word.
Neither, nice attack again though. Its like you guys cant go 2 posts without insulting someones intelligence.
You cant see the argument that you just made? 2 people in agreement and someone else being the odd one out doesnt make those 2 correct in any ways. You appealed to the popularity of something. Its painfully obvious.
Yes it is.
Yes they can.
What? You injected yourself into something you werent a part of acting like you were all along. You werent. You can join at any time but dont act like you were there for the whole thing.
Its an object that reflects an image.
You already are. But I wanted to see what kind of nonsense you were saying yet again and low and behold, blaming me for your actions. I was on topic until the insults came. Get bent.
If this place was properly moderated no one would be attacking you… because you’d have been permanently banned 12,000 posts ago.
Because it is irrelevant.
Should ideas be shot down just because someones expertise isnt up to your level? Not only that but it doesnt take a mythic raider to know that DK’s are being brought to raids. Its keeping them there and that is why people want a raid buff so its a guaranteed spot at all times so they cant be denied. Thats the crux of this entire thing.
And no, you dont have to ask for credentials when debating or having a conversation with someone. That just goes to show that there is something behind what is being said that you cant deal with so you go to credentials. How about focusing on what is said instead? Its not hard.
WHO CARES!
Because its irrelevant. 100% irrelevant. Did you question Biceps because he wasnt raiding at all and telling everyone how to play the classes. The credentials only come up with there is an opposing viewpoint to your own because your arguments are weak.
It was an appeal to you interpreting the other people incorrectly not to popularity. If you are arguing based on a false interpretation of what others are saying then saying that you’re the odd man out isn’t remotely an appeal to popularity.
You care. Significantly more than we do. Stay mad.
When you state views and opinions that come off as confusing then wanting to get an understanding of where a person is coming from and the experience they have that led them to that idea is normal.
No, it was popularity.
If you want to do this you quote what was said and explain it better. Its not my fault you dont know how to communicate with others.
It is or you would say “you arent understanding people when this is said” and attempt to explain it better. You didnt do that though and now you have appealed to popularity you are trying to deflect to something else.
Really? I bring up your accomplishments? No I dont, stay salty.
Your actions suggest otherwise because you are continuing to derail a thread attacking another player than talking about raid buffs and how one is needed. What is wrong with you 2? Its not a good look.
Whats confusing? How about you say “this doesnt make sense” instead of “you dont raid therefore you be stupid”. How about that? Again learn to adult.
You two going to get a room already?
Can people talk about the damn raid buff instead of me? How about that.
So you respond to an argument with ‘Nuh uh’ and then demand I lay out exactly what you miss understood otherwise its an appeal to popularity.
It was already laid out you just refused to critically engage with it.
The post can go back to normal if you just stop expanding the messages of people you claim to have blocked.
Wrong.
Can you just shut up about me? Huh? How about that big boy, just shut up and talk about the raid buff thats apparently not as important as owning someone else on the forums. Ego strokers such as yourself just need to shut up.
LMAO he also is known to have raided at a mythic level while you clearly do LFR. You have proven my point. Thank you.
So what? Why do you care what I have or havent done? Oh right, you need to see if people are allowed to give any opinions or feedback based on achievements. Get bent.
No, but stating you KNOW something without actually having any evidence of experiencing it is lamentable.
Lol, what a weak argument. Nothing else to say about it.
In a vacuum you are correct. The class functions adequately without a raid buff.
The problem arises when factoring in that the class is not played in a vacuum. Its played in a world full of people all competing for a limited number of something (in this case that something is group invites). When one single class brings no raid buff and utility that is highly situational then that class is put in an unfair situation.
If we assume that class balance is relatively decent then why would anyone take the class that doesn’t bring a buff when they could take a different class that does? In content that scales up to thirty people this is likely completely irrelevant, but in smaller groups it becomes a huge factor.
For content that is capped at twenty players, five players, or whatever the group sizes are in pvp (two, three, five, and ten last time I checked) the group composition and synergy between classes is very important. Taking the class that brings no buff over any class that does is actively making the content harder for no benefit. The smaller the group the more apparent this becomes.
Each of us has a different definition of pushing content. Regardless of what that definition is, why would anyone intentionally hold themselves back? The pvpers want every edge they can get. For a pve player a group buff might be the difference between making time or not in a M+.
Anyone arguing that its ok for a single class to not have something that everyone else has in a competitive environment is either being argumentative for the sake of it or are trying to push others down to give themselves an advantage.
And people have a limited pool to choose from as well.
DK brings utility though and bringing more in TWW.
That assumes perfect play by everyone to where that raid buff would make a difference and in the majority of gameplay this just isnt the case. The smaller the group the larger individual gameplay matters. 3% haste isnt going to make or break that so finding better players for your group is better than looking for any specific class or gaining a buff of some sort.
No one however is going to argue against getting a thing like horn of winter used to be.
I think people see the word need differently, ive been dealing with this since back in high school. “I need this I need that” when thats just not the case. Would it be better if DK got a raid buff? Maybe. Is it a need? Absolutely not.
Also, why not just remove all raid buffs so none of them come into play and you can balance the specs accordingly then just bring the player assuming everything is somewhat balanced? You could argue that people are balanced around these buffs being in the group / raid anyways so just get rid of them. Its just as legitimate to saying give everyone a raid buff then you just have to find one of each class to bring which can force people to play something they might not want to play.
There are many different ways to talk about this subject. I would rather have 0 raid buffs, people can play whatever they want to an extent. If you wanted to play a DK but your group needed to fill a raid buff that wasnt there who is swapping? Or who is getting benched?
You should just have gameplay differences in classes so people can play what they want instead of just checking raid buff boxes.
I’d argue if blizzard didn’t design at least one of the ‘hard’ fights per tier to be enormously easier with grip then DK would actually see even less play in raids than lower player count content.
If you look at Chaos brand or mark of the wild which general contribute close to the same value for DPS the character who brings that buff to a 20 man raid is doing 3% of the entire raids damage with the buff alone. Assuming that all dps are competitive and excluding tanks and healers for the sake of simplicity that means each dps is doing about 6.6% of the overall damage. So that 3% buff is worth about half of an entire DPS in a 20 man raid. So DKs would need to be tuned around 40% higher than other DPS to equal out to the value of the more powerful raid buffs.
Where as in M+ you’d only need to be a measly 10% higher tuned than any other DPS to get the same value without a raid buff.
Which ever way you think about the topic its just better to give us a buff if only to reduce friction in raid and M+ pugs, God knows if DKs aren’t OP or a friend I’m not inviting one.
Limited in the literal sense, but when fifty people apply for three spots the limit is irrelevant.
Its still highly situational. A shaman’s Tremor totem is technically utility, but the amount of times its actually useful are few and far between.
True, but pugs have no way to gauge an individual’s skill and thus will stack the deck in their favor as much as possible. Even a consistent group will get as many buffs as they are able.
If you have a league of ten football teams and nine of them are allowed to wear cleats but the tenth is not then that last team is at a disadvantage. Do they absolutely need cleats? I guess it depends on how you look at things.
Many would agree with you, but that isn’t the path we’re on. The path the devs have chosen is to give every class a buff except for one. Like it or not, we have to deal with the circumstances we’re in.
Certainly possible. Pretty scary when you consider that dps DKs make up less than 3% of the dps representation of timed keys at any level.